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Eric Siu and Neil Patel

Neil Patel and Eric Siu bring you daily ACTIONABLE digital marketing lessons that they've learned through years of being in the trenches. Whether you have a new website or you're an established business, you'll learn the latest SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today from people that actually practice marketing and operate business. Approaching 100M downloads with 2,500+ episodes, you're sure to find something that will help you grow faster. Also don't forget to subscribe to our Marketing School Youtube channel to get more marketing goodness.

Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode, Neil and Eric debate whether answer engine optimization AEO is overhyped, breaking down Ahrefs data on ChatGPT vs Google traffic, why search still drives most discovery, and how to think about AI search optimization across ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and more. They share real AI ROI examples from Goldman Sachs research, talk LLM use cases for marketing, sales, and ops, discuss AI's impact on jobs, and reveal their favorite AI stocks and winning marketing formula heading into 2026.

Key takeaways:

• AEO vs SEO, why AI search is overhyped now but essential long term.

• Real-world AI ROI from JP Morgan, UPS, Target, Chipotle, and more.

• How Neil and Eric use ChatGPT, Gemini, Perplexity, and other LLMs to scale marketing.

Chapters:

00:00 AEO vs SEO hype

01:02 ChatGPT vs Google traffic share

02:40 AEO short-term vs. long-term

05:55 LLM platform use cases

08:47 Real AI ROI case studies

11:02 AI, jobs, and 2027 outlook

12:59 Favorite AI stocks to watch

15:02 Hiring AI native marketers

17:16 2026 marketing experimentation playbook

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Why AEO is Overhyped

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode, Neil and Eric break down the concept of "Rich vs King" AKA Money Vs Power, using Microsoft vs SAS Institute to explore wealth vs control, equity, and generational businesses. They talk ambition after kids, compounding, TAM, IQ, focus, and why learning beats raw talent in entrepreneurship. You’ll hear how to think about billion dollar goals, picking the right niche (like HVAC), improving your focus over decades, and why B2B marketers misuse LinkedIn account-based marketing, plus how karrot.ai helps fix it.

Key takeaways:

-Rich vs king: choosing control or maximum upside as your company scales.

-Compounding, focus and the right niche beat raw IQ in business.

-Ambition, kids and balance reshape your path to billion dollar outcomes.

Chapters:

(00:00) Rich vs King for founders

(02:10) Microsoft vs SAS Institute example

(04:20) Rich, king, and life balance

(06:15) Compounding, TAM, and ambition

(08:10) IQ, learning and market niches

(10:30) HVAC edge and simple businesses

(12:30) Learning M&A, AI and recruiting

(14:20) Focus over decades as founders

(16:10) Money, distraction, and side projects

(18:00) Hiring experts, SEO roots, wrap

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Rich or King?

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down why patience, focus, and real value creation beat hype, why hating billionaires signals misplaced blame, and why virality and vibe coding rarely build durable companies. They explore bad actors vs success, the trap of chasing views, and why true leverage comes from solving customer problems, not dopamine hits or internal DIY tools. A sharp look at modern startup culture, attention chasing, and what actually lasts.

Key takeaways:

• Patience compounds faster than virality

• Value creation beats attention chasing

• Focus builds generational companies

Chapters:

(00:00) Founder patience

(02:20) Learning through osmosis

(04:55) Billionaires debate

(07:30) Vibe coding limits

(11:55) Virality misconceptions

(17:40) Operating vs popularity

(20:40) Generational business mindset

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Founders Must Let The Cake Bake

To get ad placements on premium websites, go to https://discover.taboola.com/ms

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Live events, in-person leadership, and long-term planning take center stage as Neil and Eric unpack why Elon Musk says live events are the last true luxury, how in-person time deepens team relationships, and why three-year planning beats short-term thinking. They break down accountability, B2B growth, RFP-focused marketing, and how great leaders push just hard enough to keep performance high without burning people out. Hosted by Neil and Eric, this episode is packed with actionable insights for founders, marketers, and B2B leaders looking to scale smarter.

Key takeaways

• Live events are the last real luxury

• One metric per leader drives accountability

• Great leaders push hard without burning people out

Chapters

(00:00) Elon Musk on live events as luxury

(01:22) Why in-person events still matter

(03:33) New marketing content formats with the team

(05:18) Deepening relationships with in-person time

(06:11) Three-year planning and 3HAG explained

(08:40) Beyond EOS and quarterly planning theater

(11:12) RFP growth, B2B pipeline, and key channels

(13:28) Holding leaders accountable to one core metric

(15:19) Pushing teams, follow-ups, and daily metrics

(18:32) Healthy tension, chaos, and getting things done

(20:24) Founder pressure, AI feedback, and leadership style

(21:45) When people can’t handle the pace in business

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Elon Musk: Live Events Are The Only Remaining Luxury

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric share real-world B2B marketing strategies for 2025 and 2026, covering how to buy failing SEO tools to drive traffic, scale corporate webinars, double down on product-led growth, and use live events and paid speaking engagements to fill your pipeline. They break down AI SEO, social content hooks, enterprise sales psychology, and Peter Thiel’s “one thing” focus so you can drive more revenue and help clients hit their KPIs.

Key takeaways:

Scale B2B leads through events, corporate webinars, and strategic speaking engagements.

Use AI SEO and content collabs to compound organic growth.

Win enterprise deals by focusing on buyer KPIs and promotions.

Chapters:

00:00 Buying products instead of ads

00:24 Acquiring failing SEO tools

00:44 Corporate webinars for B2B leads

01:29 In-person events and live streaming

02:35 Paid ads, PLG, and expansion

03:26 Conference luncheons and wrong events

04:00 B2B SaaS events and collabs

04:24 AI SEO, webinars, and social content

05:22 Hooks, captions, and social reach

06:11 Sponsoring events and paying to speak

08:17 Repurposing podcasts into infographics

09:23 Peter Thiel’s one-thing focus

10:27 Executive KPIs and revenue focus

11:24 Product growth without marketing

12:19 CEO vs operator responsibilities

12:56 COO profitability test in 2026

14:17 Enterprise sales hack with peer pressure

15:26 Closing by aligning with KPIs

16:25 Helping clients get promoted

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

What's Working For Us In Marketing Right Now?

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil Patel and Eric Siu break down how they’re revamping their marketing for 2026, from YouTube long-form vs shorts to webinars, lives, and AI-powered funnels. They share why riffed, story-led videos beat stiff scripts, how better packaging and thumbnails drive the right views, and why they’re prioritizing enterprise ROI over vanity metrics. You’ll hear behind-the-scenes tests with agencies, influencer hires, internal creators, and global expansion, plus how AI-driven agencies like Single Grain are rethinking content, search everywhere optimization, and work-life balance in a world of SpaceX-level grind.

Key takeaways:

• Riffed, conversational videos beat stiff scripts for real YouTube growth.

• Let sales and client demand choose topics, not vanity views or likes.

• Roundtables, lives, and webinars turn enterprise content into high-intent leads.

Chapters:

(00:00) SpaceX culture and work-life balance

(01:34) Why are intense hours breaking families

(01:45) Revamping our 2026 marketing plan

(02:01) Long form YouTube, scripts vs riffing

(03:36) Thumbnails, packaging, and YouTube hooks

(05:55) AI-focused pitch for Single Grain

(06:10) Short-form content and agency ROI

(09:11) Testing roundtable video formats

(13:06) Hiring influencers vs in-house talent

(18:05) Global expansion, enterprise focus, and email

(19:06) Going live, webinars, and community

(19:40) Wrap up and subscribe CTA

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Why SpaceX is Not For Everyone

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

On this episode of Marketing School, Neil and Eric break down how to hire A players while scaling, why downturns are the best time to weed out poor performers, and how founder mindset drives culture, acquisitions, and growth. They share real stories from NP Digital, top-grading their team, fixing broken agency cultures, and personally jumping into big sales deals to set the standard for hustle. Hosted by Neil and Eric, this one is all about talent, leadership, and what it really takes to grow a company that actually performs.

Chapters:

(00:00) Scaling, turnover, and growth milestones

(00:37) Hard times reveal true performers

(01:02) Vinod Khosla’s hardest-work question

(01:30) Why Neil turned down CMO role

(03:56) Entrepreneur vs hired gun mindset

(05:45) Keeping or exiting founders after acquisitions

(07:59) Fixing misaligned agency cultures

(11:00) Hiring standards and A-player focus

(14:53) Top grading and raising the talent bar

(17:39) How Neil allocates founder time

(19:34) Founder-led enterprise and franchise sales

(23:45) Leading by example and final thoughts

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

How Big Of a Tradeoff is Hiring Top Talent During Scaling?

To get ad placements on premium websites, go to https://discover.taboola.com/ms.

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down why Google’s Gemini 3 is a godsend for marketers, how AI Studio, Nano Banana, and VO 3.1 change marketing workflows, and what this means for SaaS founders, AI tools, and the future of marketing. They talk Google vs ChatGPT, TPUs vs NVIDIA, AI startup bubbles, and real-world AI adoption inside their own companies so you can learn how to scale teams, budgets, and output with AI while avoiding “AI slop.”

Chapters:

(00:00) Gemini 3 is a godsend

(02:00) Founder overrides, budgets, and hiring

(04:50) SaaS pricing, add-ons, product speed

(07:00) Gemini AI Studio and Nexus idea

(09:00) Gemini vs Lovable and AI tools

(11:00) Google TPUs, NVIDIA, and AI chips

(12:40) Is AI a bubble for startups

(14:30) AI slop, prompting, and MCP usage

(16:20) Generational AI gaps and KPIs

(18:10) Hiring for metrics and strategy

(20:00) Scaling teams, standards, and AI value

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Why Gemini 3 Is A Godsend For Marketers

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down the three must-have marketing hires for 2026, why influencer marketing is shifting to micro creators, how data and analytics unlock real ROI, and why digital PR and citations matter in the AI search era. They also explore the rise of the vibe growth marketing manager, the changing expectations for modern marketers, the evolving CMO role, and the underrated power of email as a revenue engine.

KEY TAKEAWAYS

-Micro influencers drive massive ROI

-Data clarity beats bigger budgets

-Email remains the strongest profit lever

CHAPTERS

(0:00) Building a 2026 marketing team

(01:02) Influencer hire essentials

(02:24) Micro influencer ROI

(04:20) Data and analytics hire

(05:59) Digital PR importance

(07:15) Vibe growth marketing manager

(08:40) Skills modern marketers need

(09:50) CMO role evolution

(11:56) Email as revenue engine

(14:34) Enterprise marketing strategy

(15:59) Final marketing lessons

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

These Are the 3 First Marketing Hires You Should Make

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

Neil and Eric break down the surge of AI GEO startups, why funding far outpaces ARR, and how services still outperform SaaS. They compare Profound, AirOps, Peak AI, BrightEdge, Moz, and SEMrush while revealing why compounding, ownership, and real relationships matter more than hype. They also discuss bootstrapped billionaires, declining businesses, and the difference between real friends and transactional ones.

Key takeaways:

• AI GEO funding is outpacing proven revenue

• Services outperform pure SaaS long term

• Real relationships drive business success

Chapters:

(00:00) AI GEO startups funding

(02:30) Services vs SaaS scaling

(05:40) Bootstrapped billionaire examples

(14:20) Compounding wealth mindset

(17:30) Real vs transactional friends

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Why GEO Startups Are F**ked

In episode #2890, Eric Siu and Neil Patel discuss effective strategies for learning marketing in 2025. From surprising industry shifts to the power of innovation, they share insights that could redefine how you think about growth and strategy. 

Don’t forget to help us grow by subscribing and liking on YouTube!

Check out more of Eric’s content (Leveling UP YT) and Neil’s videos (Neil Patel YT) 

TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES:

(00:00) Learning Marketing in 2025

(05:06) The State of Marketing Agencies

(09:47) Acquisitions and Integration Challenges in Agencies

(15:03) Economic Insights and Future Outlook

(19:20) That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review, and subscribe!

Go to https://www.marketingschool.io to learn more!
 
Leave Some Feedback:

What should we talk about next? 

Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.

 
Connect with Us: 
 

Single Grain << Eric’s ad agency

NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency

X @neilpatel

X @ericosiu

The BEST Ways to Learn Marketing in 2025

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