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Practical AI LLC

Making artificial intelligence practical, productive & accessible to everyone. Practical AI is a show in which technology professionals, business people, students, enthusiasts, and expert guests engage in lively discussions about Artificial Intelligence and related topics (Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Neural Networks, GANs, MLOps, AIOps, LLMs & more).

The focus is on productive implementations and real-world scenarios that are accessible to everyone. If you want to keep up with the latest advances in AI, while keeping one foot in the real world, then this is the show for you!

Practical AI: Machine Learning, Data Science

As AI reshapes the workplace, employees and leaders face questions about meaningful work, automation, and human impact. In this episode, Jason Beutler, CEO of RoboSource, shares how companies can rethink workflows, integrate AI in accessible ways, and empower employees without fear. The discussion covers leveraging AI to handle routine tasks (SOPs or "plays") and reimagining work for smarter, more human-centered outcomes.

Featuring:

 • Jason Beutler – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Sponsor:

 • Framer – Design and publish without limits with Framer, the free all-in-one design platform. Unlimited projects, no tool switching, and professional sites—no Figma imports or HTML hassles required. Start creating for free at 
framer.com/design • with code `PRACTICALAI` for a free month of Framer Pro.

Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Beyond chatbots: Agents that tackle your SOPs

Chris and Daniel talk with returning guest, Ramin Mohammadi, about how those seeking to get into AI Engineer/ Data Science jobs are expected to come in a mid level engineers (not entry level). They explore this growing gap along with what should (or could) be done in academia to focus on real world skills vs. theoretical knowledge. 

Featuring:

 • Ramin Mohammadi – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Sponsors:

 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalai
Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

The AI engineer skills gap

Chris and Daniel unpack how AI-driven document processing has rapidly evolved well beyond traditional OCR with many technical advances that fly under the radar. They explore the progression from document structure models to language-vision models, all the way to the newest innovations like Deepseek-OCR. The discussion highlights the pros and cons of these various approaches focusing on practical implementation and usage.

Featuring:

 • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Sponsors:

 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalaiFabi.ai • - The all-in-one data analysis platform for modern teams. From ad hoc queries to advanced analytics, Fabi lets you explore data wherever it lives—spreadsheets, Postgres, Snowflake, Airtable and more. Built-in Python and AI assistance help you move fast, then publish interactive dashboards or automate insights delivered straight to Slack, email, spreadsheets or wherever you need to share it. Learn more and get started for free at 
fabi.ai • Framer – Design and publish without limits with Framer, the free all-in-one design platform. Unlimited projects, no tool switching, and professional sites—no Figma imports or HTML hassles required. Start creating for free at 
framer.com/design • with code `PRACTICALAI` for a free month of Framer Pro.

Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Technical advances in document understanding

This episode is a special crossover between the Practical AI podcast and The Changelog podcast. Chris was recently invited by longtime friends Jerod Santo and Adam Stacoviak, cohosts of The Changelog, to join them on the show. They discuss AI, drones, robotics, swarming technology, and the rise of high-performance edge computing with Rust. Chris points out that open source software, small AI models, and affordable hardware are making home automation and local AI accessible to everyone. From automating household functions to experimenting with drones and single-board computers, Chris describes how hands-on maker projects are shaping a bright future for physical AI, on small budgets and right from the comfort of your own home.

Featuring: 

 • Jerod Santo – 
LinkedIn • Adam Stacoviak – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Sponsors: 

 • Miro – Get the right things done faster with Miro's Innovation Workspace. AI Sidekicks, instant insights, and rapid prototyping—transform weeks of work into days. No more scattered docs or endless meetings. Help your teams get great done at 
Miro.com • .
 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalai
Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

This week we have extended show notes below from Chris!

Swarming & Fully Autonomous Multi-Agent UxV Systems

Chris’s Definition of Swarming (anchor link in show notes)
Chris’s definition of Swarming
“Swarming occurs when numerous independent fully-autonomous multi-agentic platforms exhibit highly-coordinated locomotive and emergent behaviors with agency and self-governance in any domain (air, ground, sea, undersea, space), functioning as a single independent logical distributed decentralized decisioning entity for purposes of C3 (command, control, communications) with human operators on-the-loop, to implement actions that achieve strategic, tactical, or operational effects in the furtherance of a mission.”
© 2025 Chris Benson
Conceptual Foundations

Swarm Robotics – Wikipedia
 • High-level overview of swarm robotics as decentralized robot collectives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_roboticsSwarm Robotic Platforms – Wikipedia
 • Survey of hardware platforms used in swarm robotics research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_robotic_platformsSwarm Intelligence – Wikipedia
 • Broader algorithms and theory behind collective intelligence (beyond robots).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_intelligenceAnt Robotics – Wikipedia
 • Nature-inspired “ant-like” robotics as a special case of swarm robotics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ant_robotics
Open Research & Multi-Robot Resources (Stepping-Stones Toward True Swarms)

Programming Multiple Robots with ROS 2 (online book)
 • Free book on multi-robot systems, ROS 2, and the Robot Middleware Framework (RMF).

https://osrf.github.io/ros2multirobotbookSimulation with ROS 2 & Gazebo (ROS 2 Humble tutorial)
 • Official tutorial on connecting ROS 2 to Gazebo simulation.

https://docs.ros.org/en/humble/Tutorials/Advanced/Simulators/Gazebo/Gazebo.htmlSpawning Multiple Robots in Gazebo with ROS 2
 • Hands-on tutorial to launch N robots in Gazebo, each with its own namespace.

https://www.theconstruct.ai/spawning-multiple-robots-in-gazebo-with-ros2ROS 2 Multi-Robot Simulation Best Practices (Discourse thread)
 • Discussion of patterns for multi-robot systems (domains, namespaces, Nav2, etc.).

https://discourse.openrobotics.org/t/multi-robot-simulation-best-practices/38987
Getting Hands-On: Consumer Robotics, ROS 2 & Gazebo

ROS 2 (Robot Operating System 2)

Official ROS 2 Documentation – Humble (LTS)
 • Main docs for ROS 2 Humble (recommended distro) with tutorials and APIs.

https://docs.ros.org/en/humbleROS 2 Installation Guide (Humble)
 • Step-by-step install on supported platforms.

https://docs.ros.org/en/humble/Installation.html“From Zero to Robotics Hero: A Beginner’s Guide to ROS 2” (article)
 • Beginner-friendly overview with ideas for where to go next (MoveIt, Nav2, multi-robot, etc.).

https://riyagoja.medium.com/from-zero-to-robotics-hero-a-beginners-guide-to-ros-2-90ac9c3b87baROS 2 Tutorial for Beginners (2025 guide)
 • Up-to-date intro that walks you from install to simulating your first robot in 2025.

https://www.timesofexplore.com/2025/10/ros2-tutorial-beginners-build-first-robot-2025.html
Gazebo Simulation

Gazebo Sim – Official Site
 • Modern Gazebo (Ignition) simulator; models, worlds, and docs.

https://gazebosim.orgGetting Started with Gazebo (Docs)
 • Official “start here” guide for using Gazebo and Gazebo Fuel assets.

https://gazebosim.org/docs/latest/getstartedClassic Gazebo Tutorials • (still useful for fundamentals)

https://classic.gazebosim.org/tutorials
micro-ROS (ROS 2 on Microcontrollers)

micro-ROS – ROS 2 for Microcontrollers
 • Official site for running ROS 2 on tiny embedded boards.

https://micro.ros.orgmicro-ROS GitHub Organization
 • Repositories, examples, and tutor...

Chris on AI, autonomous swarming, home automation and Rust!

Fireflies CEO, Krish Ramineni shares how the company is transforming AI-powered note-taking into a deeper layer of knowledge automation. He breaks down the technology behind real-time functionality like Live Assist, the user behavior patterns driving product evolution, and how Fireflies is innovating far beyond meetings. Krish also shares insights on future trends in AI and the potential for hardware integration, emphasizing the ongoing evolution of AI in knowledge work.

Featuring:

 • Krish Ramineni – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links:

Fireflies AI
Sponsors:

 • Miro – Get the right things done faster with Miro's Innovation Workspace. AI Sidekicks, instant insights, and rapid prototyping—transform weeks of work into days. No more scattered docs or endless meetings. Help your teams get great done at 
Miro.com • .
 • Framer – Design and publish without limits with Framer, the free all-in-one design platform. Unlimited projects, no tool switching, and professional sites—no Figma imports or HTML hassles required. Start creating for free at 
framer.com/design • with code `PRACTICALAI` for a free month of Framer Pro.

Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Beyond note-taking with Fireflies

Waymo’s VP of Research, Drago Anguelov, joins Practical AI to explore how advances in autonomy, vision models, and large-scale testing are shaping the future of driverless technology. The conversation dives into the dual challenges of building an onboard driver and testing that driver (via large scale simulation). Drago also gives us an update on what Waymo is doing to achieve intelligent, real-time performance while ensuring proven safety and reliability.

Featuring:

 • Drago Anguelov – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links:

Waymo ResearchNew Insights for Scaling Laws in Autonomous DrivingAI in Motion
Sponsors: 

 • Outshift by Cisco - The open source collective building the Internet of Agents. Backed by Outshift by Cisco, AGNTCY gives developers the tools to build and deploy multi-agent software at scale. Identity, communication protocols, and modular workflows—all in one global collaboration layer. Start building at 
AGNTCY.org • .
 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalaiFabi.ai • - The all-in-one data analysis platform for modern teams. From ad hoc queries to advanced analytics, Fabi lets you explore data wherever it lives—spreadsheets, Postgres, Snowflake, Airtable and more. Built-in Python and AI assistance help you move fast, then publish interactive dashboards or automate insights delivered straight to Slack, email, spreadsheets or wherever you need to share it. Learn more and get started for free at 
fabi.ai
Upcoming Events: 

 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Autonomous Vehicle Research at Waymo

Dan and Chris unpack whether today’s surge in AI deployment across enterprise workflows, manufacturing, healthcare, and scientific research signals a lasting transformation or an overhyped bubble. Drawing parallels to the dot-com era, they explore how technology integration is reshaping industries, affecting jobs, and even influencing human cognition, ultimately asking: is this a bubble, or just a fizzy new phase of innovation?

Featuring:

 • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links: 

Powell says that, unlike the dotcom boom, AI spending isn’t a bubble: ‘I won’t go into particular names, but they actually have earnings’
Sponsors:

 • Outshift by Cisco - The open source collective building the Internet of Agents. Backed by Outshift by Cisco, AGNTCY gives developers the tools to build and deploy multi-agent software at scale. Identity, communication protocols, and modular workflows—all in one global collaboration layer. Start building at 
AGNTCY.org • .
 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalaiFabi.ai • - The all-in-one data analysis platform for modern teams. From ad hoc queries to advanced analytics, Fabi lets you explore data wherever it lives—spreadsheets, Postgres, Snowflake, Airtable and more. Built-in Python and AI assistance help you move fast, then publish interactive dashboards or automate insights delivered straight to Slack, email, spreadsheets or wherever you need to share it. Learn more and get started for free at 
fabi.ai
Upcoming Events: 

 • Join us at the 
Midwest AI Summit • on November 13 in Indianapolis to hear world-class speakers share how they’ve scaled AI solutions. Don’t miss the 
AI Engineering Lounge • , where you can sit down with experts for hands-on guidance. Reserve your spot today!
 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Are we in an AI bubble?

Dan and Chris sit down (again) with Jared Zoneraich, co-founder and CEO of PromptLayer, to discuss how prompt engineering has evolved into context engineering (and while loops with tool calls). Jared shares insights on building flexible AI applications, managing tool calls, testing and versioning prompts, and empowering both technical and non-technical users in AI development. Along the way, they dive into coding agents and the “crawl-walk-run” approach to AI deployment.

Featuring: 

 • Jared Zoneraich – 
LinkedIn • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links:

PromptLayer
Upcoming Events: 

 • Join us at the 
Midwest AI Summit • on November 13 in Indianapolis to hear world-class speakers share how they’ve scaled AI solutions. Don’t miss the 
AI Engineering Lounge • , where you can sit down with experts for hands-on guidance. Reserve your spot today!
 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

While loops with tool calls

In this fully connected episode, Daniel and Chris explore the emerging concept of tiny recursive networks introduced by Samsung AI, contrasting them with large transformer based models. They explore how these small models tackle reasoning tasks with fewer parameters, less data, and iterative refinement, matching the giants on specific problems. They also discuss the ethical challenges of emotional manipulation in chatbots.

Featuring: 

 • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links:

Less is More: Recursive Reasoning with Tiny NetworksResearchers detail 6 ways chatbots seek to prolong ‘emotionally sensitive events’
Sponsors:

 • Outshift by Cisco - The open source collective building the Internet of Agents. Backed by Outshift by Cisco, AGNTCY gives developers the tools to build and deploy multi-agent software at scale. Identity, communication protocols, and modular workflows—all in one global collaboration layer. Start building at 
AGNTCY.org • .
Fabi.ai • - The all-in-one data analysis platform for modern teams. From ad hoc queries to advanced analytics, Fabi lets you explore data wherever it lives—spreadsheets, Postgres, Snowflake, Airtable and more. Built-in Python and AI assistance help you move fast, then publish interactive dashboards or automate insights delivered straight to Slack, email, spreadsheets or wherever you need to share it. Learn more and get started for free at 
fabi.ai • Miro – The innovation workspace for the age of AI. Built for modern teams, Miro helps you turn unstructured ideas into structured outcomes—fast. Diagramming, product design, and AI-powered collaboration, all in one shared space. Start building at 
miro.com
Upcoming Events: 

 • Join us at the 
Midwest AI Summit • on November 13 in Indianapolis to hear world-class speakers share how they’ve scaled AI solutions. Don’t miss the 
AI Engineering Lounge • , where you can sit down with experts for hands-on guidance. Reserve your spot today!
 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Tiny Recursive Networks

As AI systems move from simple chatbots to complex agentic workflows, new security risks emerge. In this episode, Donato Capitella unpacks how increasingly complicated architectures are making agents fragile and vulnerable. These agents can be exploited through prompt injection, data exfiltration, and tool misuse. Donato shares stories from real-world penetration tests, the design patterns for building LLM agents and explains how his open-source toolkit Spikee (Simple Prompt Injection Kit for Evaluation and Exploitation) is helping red teams probe AI systems.

Featuring:

 • Donato Capitella – 
LinkedIn • , 
X • Chris Benson – 
Website • , 
LinkedIn • , 
Bluesky • , 
GitHub • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Links:

Reversec
Sponsors:

 • Outshift by Cisco - The open source collective building the Internet of Agents. Backed by Outshift by Cisco, AGNTCY gives developers the tools to build and deploy multi-agent software at scale. Identity, communication protocols, and modular workflows—all in one global collaboration layer. Start building at 
AGNTCY.org • .
 • Shopify – The commerce platform trusted by millions. From idea to checkout, Shopify gives you everything you need to launch and scale your business—no matter your level of experience. Build beautiful storefronts, market with built-in AI tools, and tap into the platform powering 10% of all U.S. eCommerce. Start your one-dollar trial at 
shopify.com/practicalaiFabi.ai • - The all-in-one data analysis platform for modern teams. From ad hoc queries to advanced analytics, Fabi lets you explore data wherever it lives—spreadsheets, Postgres, Snowflake, Airtable and more. Built-in Python and AI assistance help you move fast, then publish interactive dashboards or automate insights delivered straight to Slack, email, spreadsheets or wherever you need to share it. Learn more and get started for free at 
fabi.ai
Upcoming Events: 

 • Join us at the 
Midwest AI Summit • on November 13 in Indianapolis to hear world-class speakers share how they’ve scaled AI solutions. Don’t miss the 
AI Engineering Lounge • , where you can sit down with experts for hands-on guidance. Reserve your spot today!
 • Register for 
upcoming webinars here • !

Dealing with increasingly complicated agents

We’ve had representatives from Stanford’s Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence (HAI) on the show in the past, but we were super excited to talk through their 2024 AI Index Report after such a crazy year in AI! Nestor from HAI joins us in this episode to talk about some of the main takeaways including how AI makes workers more productive, the US is increasing regulations sharply, and industry continues to dominate frontier AI research.

Join the discussion

Changelog++ members save 3 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today!

Sponsors:

Plumb • – 
Low-code AI pipeline builder • that helps you build complex AI pipelines fast. Easily create AI pipelines using their node-based editor. Iterate and deploy faster and more reliably than coding by hand, without sacrificing control. 

Featuring:

 • Nestor Maslej – 
LinkedIn • , 
X • Daniel Whitenack – 
Website • , 
GitHub • , 
X
Show Notes:

Stanford HAI2024 AI Index Report
Something missing or broken? PRs welcome!

Stanford's AI Index Report 2024

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