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PetaPixel

Chris Niccolls and Jordan Drake join PetaPixel's Editor-in-Chief Jaron Schneider for a weekly discussion on current events in the photography industry, camera equipment, technology, culture, and more.

The PetaPixel Podcast

Now saving when you shop for your favorite gear at B&H Photo is even easier with the B&H Payboo Credit Card, which lets you Save the Tax — you pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly! (Save the Tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states.) Or you can pay over time with 6 and 12 month financing (on minimum purchases of $199 for 6 months, and $599 for 12 months). Terms apply, learn more at http://bhphoto.com/payboo.

Credit card offers are subject to credit approval. Payboo Credit Card Accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro
 • 08:03 - 
Affinity sees 3M downloads in 33 days • 12:02 - 
Martin Parr passed away • 14:06 - 
This photographer built his own medium format rangefinder (and so can you) • 17:05 - 
Tamron 150-500mm firmware update • 20:13 - 
Crucial SSDs are no more • 22:55 - 
The Antigravity A1 is now available • 25:55 - 
Green lenses are beautiful • 28:16 - The 2025 PetaPixel Awards
 • 29:26 - Accessory of the Year
 • 24:55 - Software of the Year
 • 37:47 - Workstation of the Year
 • 42:48 - Smartphone of the Year
 • 48:25 - Zoom Lens of the Year
 • 52:12 - Prime Lens of the Year
 • 56:43 - People's Choice Award: Camera of the Year
 • 1:00:35 - Camera of the Year
 • 1:07:09 - Photo Company of the Year
 • 1:07:38 - Technology Innovation of the Year
 • 1:09:19 - What have you been up to?
 • 1:16:43 - Tech Support 
 • 1:31:57 - 
Feel Good Story of the Week

The 2025 PetaPixel Awards

Do you ever get tired of manually searching for, organizing, and culling your images? We do, too - and that’s where Excire can help! Excire’s photo-management software harnesses AI to make tedious tasks 10x faster, easier, and more fun. To purchase an Excire lifetime license or to download a 14-day free trial, visit http://www.excire.com/en/shop! 

EXCIRE BLACK FRIDAY SALE: PetaPixel viewers can receive 30% off their purchase with the special discount code PETAPIXEL30 -- valid through December 7th!

Now saving when you shop for your favorite gear at B&H Photo is even easier with the B&H Payboo Credit Card, which lets you Save the Tax — you pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly! (Save the Tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states.) Or you can pay over time with 6 and 12 month financing (on minimum purchases of $199 for 6 months, and $599 for 12 months). Terms apply, learn more at http://bhphoto.com/payboo.

Credit card offers are subject to credit approval. Payboo Credit Card Accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

In July, The PetaPixel Podcast team was joined by Camera Labs' Gordon Laing to give mid-term grades to every major camera and lens manufacturer. Now that the year has ended, it’s time for them all to get graded on their finals in this annual tradition!

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro
 • 08:26 - 
You can now edit 32K video in Resolve • 10:29 - 
Sony's new smartphone sensor promises 17 stops of DR • 12:39 - 
Thypoch's new Eurka 28mm f/2.8 is inspired by another cool, obscure lens • 16:04 - The custom film simulation recipe from the limited edition GFX100RF
 • 17:11 - Review Roundup
 • 25:28 - Grading Every Camera Maker in 2025 Feat. Gordon Laing
 • 27:17 - Canon
 • 34:21 - Nikon
 • 40:12 - Sony
 • 53:35 - Panasonic Lumix
 • 1:03:28 - Fujifilm
 • 1:14:18 - Hasselblad
 • 1:18:02 - OM System
 • 1:24:16 - Leica
 • 1:28:55 - Sigma
 • 1:35:26 - Tamron

Grading Every Camera Maker: 2025 FINAL Review (Feat. Gordon Laing)

Do you ever get tired of manually searching for, organizing, and culling your images? Excire’s photo-management software harnesses AI to make tedious tasks 10x faster, easier, and more fun. To purchase an Excire lifetime license or to download a 14-day free trial, visit http://www.excire.com/en/shop! 

EXCIRE BLACK FRIDAY SALE: PetaPixel viewers can receive 30% off their purchase with the special discount code PETAPIXEL30 -- valid through December 7th!

Now saving when you shop for your favorite gear at B&H Photo is even easier with the B&H Payboo Credit Card, which lets you Save the Tax — you pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly! (Save the Tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states.) Or you can pay over time with 6 and 12 month financing (on minimum purchases of $199 for 6 months, and $599 for 12 months). Terms apply, learn more at http://bhphoto.com/payboo.

Credit card offers are subject to credit approval. Payboo Credit Card Accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro
 • 08:37 - 
The Kodak Snapic A1 is a $99 film camera with a double exposure switch • 11:06 - 
The AP has switched to DaVinci Resolve • 12:29 - 
Arri closed two facilities dedicated to lighting • 16:12 - 
Leica's M EV1 is finally available in the US after delays due to the government shutdown • 17:15 - 
Q3 Monochrom was announced • 22:41 - 
Lumix significantly improved S1 II and S1R II record times • 25:27 - 
Laowa made a new half-macro tilt shift lens • 28:36 - 
Fujifilm teamed up with a Japanese artist for a limited edition GFX100RF • 31:35 - 
The world's biggest walk-in camera is for sale • 34:38 - "The Stringer" Utterly Ruins the Reputation of Nick Ut and the AP
 • 1:29:12 - 
Read Matt's review of "The Stringer" on PetaPixel • 1:29:24 - While you were out taking pictures, 
Polar Pro studied the blade

'The Stringer' Stands to Destroy the Reputation of Nick Ut and the AP

The holiday season is here, and so is OM SYSTEM’s Black Friday pricing. Right now, you can save up to $400 on many of the cameras and lenses that they make.

The OM-1 Mark II, their professional powerhouse perfect for bird and wildlife photography, with blazing-fast autofocus and class-leading stabilization, is $400 off. For those looking for an even lighter all-around travel kit, the OM-3 and M.Zuiko 12-45mm F4.0 PRO package is only $2099.99. And if you’re looking to upgrade your glass, you’ll find big savings on almost al M.Zuikol lenses.

Check out the full lineup at explore.omsystem.com/petapixel and take your photography to the next level without breaking the bank.

Now saving when you shop for your favorite gear at B&H Photo is even easier with the B&H Payboo Credit Card, which lets you Save the Tax — you pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly! (Save the Tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states.) Or you can pay over time with 6 and 12 month financing (on minimum purchases of $199 for 6 months, and $599 for 12 months). Terms apply, learn more at http://bhphoto.com/payboo.

Credit card offers are subject to credit approval. Payboo Credit Card Accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

The PetaPixel team uses different cameras and lenses every day as part of our job but behind the scenes, we carry around a few pieces of mainstay gear that we just can't live without. This week, The PetaPixel Podcast team reveals the equipment they've been carrying this year that keeps the wheels of journalism turning. 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro; Chris and Jordan are working a shift at the Camera Store Next Week!
 • 12:25 - 
We just got the best look yet at Jeff Bridges' WideluxX project • 15:10 - 
ARRI is trying to mimic film with a digital plugin • 18:11 - 
Fujifilm released the film simulation LUTS it promised • 20:49 - 
Light Lens Lab has recreated the Leica Summilux 35mm f/1.4 • 24:56 - 
Mint addresses major Rollei 35AF shortcoming • 27:40 - 
Lumix is shutting down its pro services in the UK and Europe • 31:34 - 
The R6 Mark III can overheat • 34:34 - 
Basketball player runs back onto the court with camera strapped to his leg • 36:51 - Everything ELSE you missed!
 • 41:00 - The Fantasy Camera Draft poll results
 • 44:46 - Do you do graphic design? Reach out!
 • 45:54 - The gear we use every day (2025 edition)
 • 1:07:49 - Chris teases an upcoming new Wotancraft Pilot sling bag
 • 1:11:22 - New segment alert: Review Roundup!
 • 1:19:51 - What have you been up to?
 • 1:23:58 - Tech support
 • 1:35-45 - 
Feel good story of the week

The Gear We Used Every Day of 2025

DxO is offering PetaPixel Podcast listeners 20% off any DxO software, including Nik Collection 8, by using the code ‘PetaPixel’ at checkout. If you’re a Photoshop user looking to elevate your color grading and creative editing, Nik Collection 8’s redesigned UXP panel, enhanced masking capabilities, and non-destructive Smart Object workflow make it a game-changer. Create your own non-destructive workflow in Photoshop, Lightroom Classic and DxO’s own powerful PhotoLab 9, that will transform simple captures into compelling, professional-grade photographs.

Head over to dxo.com and check out Nik Collection 8. Use code ‘PetaPixel’ to save 20%!

Now saving when you shop for your favorite gear at B&H Photo is even easier with the B&H Payboo Credit Card which lets you Save the Tax — you pay the tax, and B&H pays you back instantly! (Save the Tax on eligible purchases shipped to eligible states.) OR you can pay over time with our 6 & 12 month financing (on minimum purchases of $199 for 6 months, and $599 for 12 months). Terms apply, learn more at bhphoto.com/payboo. 

Credit card offers are subject to credit approval. Payboo Credit Card Accounts are issued by Comenity Capital Bank.

This week on The PetaPixel Podcast, the team is joined by photographer David Imel and PetaPixel's Jeremy Gray for a unique challenge: who can draft the best fantasy camera team? Based loosely on fantasy football rules, all five must create a dream team based on eight categories. 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro 
 • 11:55 - Affinity went the DaVinci Resolve route, 
and is now free • 13:50 - 
Lightroom Classic's updates are an example of what AI should be doing • 17:08 - 
Sony is the first company to authenticate video file • s
 • 19:35 - 
The LemurStrap is an innovative approach to camera carry • 21:50 - 
A photographer has decided to make anamorphic M-mount lenses • 24:44- 
Moment's new line of ultra-light camera bags have some innovative design elements • 29:07 - 
Feel good story of the week • 32:49 - The Fantasy Camera Draft, feat. David Imel and Jeremy Gray

We Drafted Our Dream Camera Teams! Feat. David Imel & Jeremy Gray

With a PetaPixel Membership, not only can you support original PetaPixel reporting and in-depth reviews, but you can also remove ads from the website and gain access to some seriously great perks, too. Members get $15 off the Moment Store, 25% off the PetaPixel Merch Store, 5% off certified pre-owned gear from KEH, and now can download full-resolution RAW files and JPEGs from the latest cameras and lenses. Join today! It costs just $3 per month or $30 per year. 

This week on The PetaPixel Podcast, Chris Niccolls, Jordan Drake, and Jaron Schneider come to you from Sigma's headquarters in Tokyo, Japan to talk with Sigma President Kazuto Yamaki to dissect what has been an enormous year of launches for the brand. Yamaki discusses the changing economic climate, the reception to the BF, and he even answers a really dumb question about an improbable lens from a video game. 

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro from Tokyo!
 • 07:31 - 
Panasonic has a new gold S9 • 10:01 - 
Nikon gives APS-C photographers a welcome boost • 13:56 - 
Apple’s M5 MacBook Pro is really well balanced for the price • 16:35 - Jordan is very mixed 
on the Canon C50 • 21:10 - 
Fujifilm didn’t change much on the X-T30 III • , but could they really even? (and Jaron was WRONG)
 • 27:09 - 
The Leica M EV1 will be polarizing • 32:35 - 
Tamron’s 25-200mm f/2.8-5.6 Di III VXD G2 Is Here and Costs $899 • 35:30 - 
Ricoh is making a dedicated monochrome GR IV • 37:36 - 
Sigma Delays AF Cine 28-45mm T2 FF Due to Overwhelming Demand • 38:45 - Looking back at Sigma's monster year with President Kazuto Yamaki
 • 57:11 - What have you been up to?
 • 1:00:30 - 
Feel Good Story of the week

Looking Back on Sigma's MONSTER 2025 (Plus TWO Cameras Launched?!)

With a PetaPixel Membership, not only can you support original PetaPixel reporting and in-depth reviews, but you can also remove ads from the website and gain access to some seriously great perks, too. Members get $15 off the Moment Store, 25% off the PetaPixel Merch Store, 5% off certified pre-owned gear from KEH, and now can download full-resolution RAW files and JPEGs from the latest cameras and lenses. Join today! It costs just $3 per month or $30 per year. 

This week on The PetaPixel Podcast, Jordan Drake dials in remotely as Chris Niccolls and Jaron Schneider come to you from Brisbane, Australia. Ricoh has opened only its fourth-ever GR Space, and they were there to see the ribbon cut. Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro from the GR Space in Brisbane
 • 07:23 - Australia!
 • 10:50 - 
Tamron's G2 trinity on Z mount is complete • 15:28 - 
You can download and use other people's OM System recipes • 18:59 - 
Nikon says the ZR is good enough to fill two camera line segments by itself • 23:06 - 
Affinity stops selling software ahead of "big changes" coming in October • 24:56 - 
Nikon's original Z-mount 24-70mm f/2.8 is discontinued? • 
 • 27:10 - 
CIPA data shows "summer slump" worse this year • 30:10 - 
Caira is an "AI-Native" Micro Four Thirds camera with Gen AI built in • 37:45 - 
Blackmagic RAW is coming to Sony • 39:27 - 
Fujifilm did make actual changes to the Eterna 55 sensor • 42:05 - 
Is Jaron right or is he wrong? • 52:17 - What have you been up to?
 • 56:40 - Tech support
 • 1:13:08 - 
Feel good story of the week

Podcasting From the GR Space in Brisbane, Australia!

With a PetaPixel Membership, not only can you support original PetaPixel reporting and in-depth reviews, but you can also remove ads from the website and gain access to some seriously great perks, too. Join today! It costs just $3 per month or $30 per year. 

This week on the PetaPixel Podcast, the team is back to go over a ton of news from Sony, Nikon, Fujifilm, Lumix, and more as well as discuss their favorite tripods of 2025 (and one they didn't like as much). 

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode00:00 - Intro (our traumatic tripod stories)14:24 - Sony has a new 100mm f/2.8 Macro17:23 - You can trick the iPhone 17 Pro into recording open gate RAW internally20:34 - Sony's new global shutter sensor shoots 105MP at 100FPS24:00 - The Analogue aF-1 is a brand-new autofocus film camera27:25 - CreativeLive is shutting down30:11 - Nikon says the ZR can record for over 2 hours without overheating34:36 - Zeiss Loxia lenses are officially discontinued37:18 - Fujifilm is going to make more cinema cameras39:35 - Lumix 100-500mm is the system's first ultra tele zoom45:23 - Chris and Jaron are going to Brisbane for GR Space!46:40 - Kodacolor 100 and 200 just launched today: https://petapixel.com/2025/09/30/kodacolor-100-is-a-new-film-from-eastman-kodak-arriving-this-week/51:45 - Sony cameras and lenses got another price hike in the US53:05 - Our favorite tripods in 2025 (and one not so favorite)1:12:52 - What have you been up to?1:19:18 - About the compact camera video... and how we're going to do another one1:20:30 - Tech support 1:30:34 - Feel goody story of the week: A brand-new camera company is making the spiritual successor to the Lumix GM5

Huge Week of Sony, Nikon, Kodak News, Plus our Favorite Tripods of 2025!

With a PetaPixel Membership, not only can you support original PetaPixel reporting and in-depth reviews, but you can also remove ads from the website and gain access to some seriously great perks, too. Members get $15 off the Moment Store, 25% off the PetaPixel Merch Store, 5% off certified pre-owned gear from KEH, and now can download full-resolution RAW files and JPEGs from the latest cameras and lenses. Join today! It costs just $3 per month or $30 per year. 

This week on the PetaPixel Podcast, Jordan Drake and I are without Chris Niccolls who is on assignment in Japan. That's okay though, because this past week was huge in the video and broadcasting space with the launch of the Canon C50 and the Nikon ZR.

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode • 00:00 - Intro
 • 13:55 - PetaPixel is now on Apple News (correctly!)
 • 15:57 - 
Canon C50 is the smallest and lightest Canon Cinema camera • 20:46 - 
Nikon ZR is the first collaboration camera with RED • 24:59 - 
RED V-Raptor XE is half the price of the V-Raptor X • 26:41 - The Fujifilm GFX Eterna 55 costs $16,500: https://petapixel.com/2025/09/10/fujifilms-cinema-camera-is-called-the-gfx-eterna-55-will-cost-16500/
 • 31:19 - 
Pixboom Spark shoots 4K at 1,000 FPS • 35:42 - 
Nikon is developing dedicated cinema lenses • 39:36 - 
Leitz announced a set of cine lenses for mirrorless cameras • 42:19 - 
Blackmagic made a super-powered dock for iPhone filmmaking • 45:04 - Canon C50 vs Nikon ZR vs Sony FX3
 • 47:47 - What's the deal (or lack thereof) with open gate?
 • 52:19 - Does rolling shutter on the Eterna 55 actually matter?
 • 58:40 - How much of Apple's iPhone 17 marketing turned out to be real and good? And what didn't they mention that they should have?
 • 1:04:48 - Why Jordan is so excited about ProRes RAW
 • 1:06:52 - What have you been up to?
 • 1:11:02 - Tech support 
 • 1:26:38 - The Kodak Charmera blind box camera sold out in just a few days: https://petapixel.com/2025/09/09/the-kodak-charmera-is-a-tiny-digital-keychain-camera-sold-in-blind-boxes/

Can the Canon C50 or Nikon ZR Unseat the Sony FX3?

Audiio just dropped Elements 2.0 — sharper, cleaner, more precise stems powered by Audioshake, the industry-leading AI sound separation technology trusted by Disney, Universal Music Group, and other top names in film, TV, and music. The stems sound as good as the original masters, and now Strings join the lineup alongside bass, guitar, piano, wind, and more.

Normally, stems are exclusive to the Audiio Pro plan. But Audiio has opened up a special Lifetime Elements package just for Lifetime Music subscribers and they set aside 100 spots for PetaPixel’s viewers. Here’s how it works: • If you’re not already a Lifetime Music subscriber, join today for just $199 with 
code petapixel199 • . After checkout, you’ll unlock the option to add Lifetime Elements for only $149.
 • Already a Lifetime Music member? Just sign in and head to the Stems menu on the Browse page.
Don’t miss out — this is your chance to get unlimited access to Audiio’s music catalog + stems for every song. And once those 100 memberships are gone, they’re gone. Go to https://audiio.com/petapixel and make sure to use offer code "petapixel199" today!

In this episode, we're talking about our experience making a documentary film in Alaska (with more stories that didn't make it into our BTS video) as well as a conversation with director of photography Oren Soffer on why someone would even be interested in the Fujifilm GFX Eterna 55. Then, Chris and Jordan are joined by Tyler Stalman at Apple Park to talk about the new iPhone and why this year's models actually have them excited (spoiler: it's because there are hardware updates). 

Check out PetaPixel Merch: store.petapixel.com/ 

We use Riverside to record The PetaPixel Podcast in our online recording studio.

We hope you enjoy the podcast and we look forward to hearing what you think. If you like what you hear, please support us by subscribing, liking, commenting, and reviewing! Every week, the trio go over comments on YouTube and here on PetaPixel, but if you’d like to send a message for them to hear, you can do so through SpeakPipe.

In This Episode: • 00:00 - Intro
 • 15:35 - We made a movie in Alaska!
 • 44:47 - Why would someone want to use the GFX Eterna 55? w/ Oren Soffer
 • 59:56 - All about iPhone from Apple Park! w/ Tyler Stalman

What We're MOST Excited About with Apple's iPhone 17! Feat. Tyler Stalman

This week's episode is brought to you by OM SYSTEM, who is happy to introduce their exclusive Trade-In, Trade-Up promotion!

Trade in any qualified interchangeable lens camera for credit towards an exciting camera upgrade. You can unlock even more savings on the incredible OM-1 camera body or the OM-1 with 12-40mm F2.8 PRO II Kit. Not only do you get a $200 instant rebate, but OM SYSTEM is sweetening the deal with an additional trade-up bonus coupon valued at $200. That's double the savings PLUS the value of your qualified camera exchange. This offer is good until October 1, 2023, so visit explore.omsystem.com/petapixel for more details and to kickstart your new camera system journey today!

--

If you've watched lens reviews on PetaPixel, you might have heard some strange terms. LoCA? Bokeh? Ghosting? Breathing? Field curvature? This week, Chris, Jordan, and Jaron address several of these terms and explain what they are and why they matter.

These aren't even all of the important terms, so we'll come back in a future episode to discuss more.

--

This week's topics:

 1. 00:00 - Intro 
 2. 05:52 - 
The Sony a6700 doesn't come with any way to charge it 3. 
 4. 16:33 - 
Nikon is reportedly telling some retailers/distributors to tug on Z8 strap lugs 5. 
 6. 20:57 - 
After raising $235K, Abode is actually going to try and take on Adobe 7. 
 8. 25:04 - 
Jaron's opinion of drones 9. is questionable 
 10. 33:11 - What have you been up to? 
 11. 36:09 - What the heck do all these camera terms mean? 
 12. 37:19 - What is "bokeh"? 
 13. 42:40 - What is "LoCA"? 
 14. 46:47 - What is field curvature and why does it matter? 
 15. 52:45 - What is breathing? 
 16. 55:11 - What are ghosting and flare? 
 17. 57:45 - Tech Support 
 18. 1:02:40 - Never read the comments

What the HECK Do All These Camera Terms Mean?!

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