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New York Times Opinion

The first draft of our future. Mapping the new world order through interviews and conversations. Every Thursday, from New York Times Opinion.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Matter of Opinion

Who’s afraid of Palantir? The company’s chief technology officer, Shyam Sankar, joins Ross Douthat for a conversation about what the shadowy company actually does — and the thorny political and ethical questions it faces. They also discuss the new era of collaboration between Silicon Valley and the military, a personal project for Sankar, who was recently commissioned as a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army Reserve.

 • 01:37 - So, what does Palantir do?
 • 07:45 - The “kill chain”
 • 13:27 - The tech company’s relationship with I.C.E.
 • 18:09 - What happens to privacy?
 • 25:30 - Palantir and Israel
 • 27:22 - Sankar’s personal military journey
 • 34:43 - Silicon Valley’s militarization
 • 43:09 - TITAN, A.I. and the “Iron Man” suit

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

What Palantir Sees

Is Taylor Swift’s “The Life of a Showgirl” the soundtrack for the Trump era? Self-titled “conservative dad” Ross Douthat thinks so, and explains why in this mini-episode of “Interesting Times.

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Taylor Swift’s Trad Turn

Is the artificial intelligence revolution keeping the entire economy afloat? This week on “Interesting Times,” Ross talks with Jason Furman, an economist from the Harvard Kennedy School and a contributing writer for Times Opinion, about how investors, policymakers and consumers should think about the boom — and potential bust — of the fastest growing segment of the American economy and look to past bubbles for answers.

 • 01:12 - Okay, so are we in a bubble?
 • 08:51 - Historical comparisons of past bubbles
 • 12:45 - The case for an A.I. bubble
 • 22:07 - The case against an A.I. bubble
 • 29:44 - What if it bursts?
 • 34:15 - The economic health of the Trump administration
 • 45:08 - “I'm reasonably optimistic.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Next Economic Bubble Is Here

Justice Amy Coney Barrett is playing the long game. In this week’s “Interesting Times,” she walks us through the current court’s most controversial rulings, why she believes that her originalist interpretations are resistant to ideological pressures and why she’s not comfortable thinking of herself as a cultural icon.

 • 02:19 - Balancing the personal and the professional
 • 11:45 - The theory and practice of originalism
 • 18:00 - Why was Roe. v. Wade overruled?
 • 27:19 - Stare Decisis and Overruling Decisions
 • 35:29 - “Judges are human and judges are fallible.”
 • 42:49 - The Supreme Court is taking the long view
 • 53:20 - The Court's relationship with the executive branch

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Amy Coney Barrett Is Looking Beyond the Trump Era

Evangelical pastor and self-proclaimed Christian nationalist Doug Wilson has been preaching for decades that America needs to reclaim its Puritan past. But in 2025, he believes he’s “significantly” more influential. Does that mean America is closer to Wilson’s goal of theocracy? In this episode, nothing is off limits — even Ross’s own salvation.

 • 01:36 - Doug Wilson's vision for a Christian nation
 • 08:37 - Wilson’s ideal theocratic republic
 • 19:12 - Theocracy and religious diversity
 • 30:50 - Do women have rights in this new republic?
 • 36:59 - Christendom and slavery
 • 46:50 - How far does Wilson’s influence go in a “clown world”?
 • 59:54 - Calvinism activism and quietism

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

He Believes America Should Be a Theocracy. He Says His Influence Is Growing.

The Twitch and YouTube star Hasan Piker understands what pushes people to commit acts of political violence. But does that understanding tip over into appreciation? In this episode of “Interesting Times,” Ross Douthat and Piker debate why Piker’s post-liberal rhetoric attracts criticism from the right (and results in the occasional platform suspension) and why Americans’ changing attitudes on Israel feed his “revolutionary optimism.”

 • 02:14 - Life during and after Twitch
 • 10:45 - The Hasan Piker worldview
 • 15:57 - “Revolutionary violence”
 • 20:13 - Is it hyperbole or incitement?
 • 30:48 - Hasan’s Luigi Mangione coverage
 • 41:35 - The danger in pushing taboos
 • 51:52 - Anti-Zionist advocacy and Hasan’s Turkish background
 • 1:08:00 - “Revolutionary optimism”

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hasan Piker Is Flirting With the Revolution

What is wrong with higher education in America? According to many on the right, a lot. This week, Ross Douthat talks to May Mailman, the lawyer behind President Trump’s battles with Harvard and Columbia, about the administration’s assault on the Ivy League and why “a glorification of victimhood” is changing the relationship between universities and the federal government.

 • 02:51 - What is a “culture of victimhood”?
 • 07:38 - Mailman’s political awakening
 • 11:44 - Social media and protest culture in the 2010s
 • 19:39 - The Trump administration’s strategy against universities
 • 26:33 - The financial levers that could ensure compliance
 • 36:09 - Ideological diversity and free speech
 • 47:56 - How legal is all this?
 • 52:25 - Higher education in 2030

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Grand Strategy Behind Trump’s Crackdown on Academia

Ezra Klein argues that the left desperately needs a unifying project — for its own survival and for the sake of the country. In this episode of Ross Douthat’s “Interesting Times,” Ross and Ezra assess the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s assassination and debate whether the left has taken a dark turn.

 • 00:25 How liberalism became “uncertain and exhausted”
 • 08:37 The void in the Democratic Party
 • 12:21 Does progressive despair lead to radicalism?
 • 15:04 “Violence is contagious"
 • 19:24 Can the left be more malleable?
 • 28:20 The hippies, Peter Thiel and technology
 • 32:11 Does the American left need cosmic hope?
 • 41:59 A vision of the “good life”

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

A full transcript of this episode is also available on the Times website.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Ezra Klein Is Worried — but Not About a Radicalized Left

In moments of political shock and horror, where can we turn? Ross was supposed to interview Charlie Kirk next month for the show and now offers his reflections on Kirk, his political movement and his assassination.

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

I was set to interview Charlie Kirk. Then he was assassinated.

Is the United States still a worthy opponent for China? In this episode, Ross Douthat talks to Dan Wang, the author of “Breakneck: China’s Quest to Engineer the Future,” about the alarming speed at which China is able to build and could blow America out of the water.

 • 01:44 - “A life full of ease and beauty”
 • 05:30 - Rule by engineers
 • 11:00 - China’s Technological Mastery
 • 16:04 - Is autocracy driving innovation?
 • 25:00 - What are the real stakes of the competition?
 • 35:47 - How could China fail? 
 • 53:00 - Advice for America

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Does the Future Belong to China?

The billionaire Peter Thiel is unimpressed with our pace of innovation. In this episode, he critiques artificial intelligence, longevity science and space travel — and warns that our lack of progress could lead to catastrophic outcomes, including the emergence of the Antichrist.

 • 01:19 - What does stagnation mean in 2025?
 • 06:30 - Peter Thiel's case for more progress and innovation
 • 11:30 - Does taking more scientific risk include life extension?
 • 15:14 - Peter Thiel's political history
 • 18:34 - Did Trump live up to Thiel's expectations?
 • 25:10 - Does Elon Musk still want to go to Mars?
 • 28:09 - How Thiel defines A.I.
 • 33:20 - Is A.I. Too Modest An Ambition?
 • 35:23 - How will the human race evolve? Should it?
 • 41:53 - Thiel's critique of Silicon Valley
 • 43:40 - Who is the real Antichrist?

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

A Mind-Bending Conversation with Peter Thiel

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