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Ian Sanders

Experience the Cold War like never before with Cold War Conversations — an award-winning podcast recommended by The New York Times.
Each week, host Ian Sanders brings you raw, firsthand accounts from the people who lived through one of history’s most tense and transformative eras — soldiers, spies, civilians, and more.
These aren’t stories from textbooks. They’re unfiltered voices from the frontlines of history — emotional, gripping, and deeply human.
This is Cold War history, told from the inside out.
We cover subjects such as spies, spying, the Iron Curtain, nuclear weapons, warfare, tanks, jet aircraft, fighters, bombers, transport aircraft, aviation, culture, and politics.
We also cover personalities such as Fidel Castro, JFK, Ronald Reagan, Nikita Khrushchev, Leonid Brezhnev, Yuri Andropov, Mikhail Gorbachev, Konstantin Chernenko, Margaret Thatcher, John F. Kennedy, Josef Stalin, Richard Nixon, Lech Walesa, General Jaruzelski, Nicolae Ceaușescu.
Other subjects include Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Romania, Checkpoint Charlie, Berlin, West Berlin, East Berlin, Cuban missile Crisis, Berlin Airlift, Bay of Pigs, SALT, Perestroika, Space Race, superpower, USSR, Soviet Union, DDR, GDR, East Germany, SDI, Vietnam War, Korean War, Solidarność, Fall of the Wall, Berliner Mauer, Trabant, Communist, Capitalist, Able Archer, KGB, Stasi, STB, SB, Securitate, CIA, NSA, MI5, MI6, Berlin Wall, escape, defection, Cuba, Albania, football, sport, Bulgaria, Soviet Union, Poland, China, Taiwan, Austria, West Germany, Solidarity, espionage, HUMINT, SIGINT, OSINT, IMINT, GEOINT, RAF, USAF, British Army, US Army, Red Army, Soviet Army, Afghanistan, NVA, East German Army, KAL007, T-72, T-64, Chieftain, M60
The podcast is for military veterans, school teachers, university lecturers, students and those interested in Cold War history, museums, bunkers, weapons, AFVs, wargamers, planes, A Level, GCSE students studying Superpower Relations and the Cold War.

Cold War Conversations

Join our East-West tank crew reunion that offers a rare glimpse into the lives of those who served on opposite sides of the Iron Curtain. The episode features Al and Mick, former Chieftain tank crew members from the British Army, alongside Dag, an ex-East German T72 tank commander. 

Together, they delve into their personal experiences, providing insights into the military strategies, challenges, and camaraderie that defined their service during the Cold War.
As the discussion unfolds, the trio explores the intricacies of military life, from the training regimes and unit cohesion to the technical specifications of their respective tanks.

Dag provides an intriguing account of the T72's capabilities, highlighting its strengths and limitations. Meanwhile, Al and Mick reflect on their experiences with the Chieftain tank, offering a Western perspective on tank warfare during the Cold War.

The episode is punctuated with personal anecdotes and reflections, adding depth and humanity to the historical narrative. Dag's candid admission of his reluctance to serve at the border and his refusal to shoot at defectors offers a poignant reminder of the moral complexities faced by those in uniform. Similarly, Al and Mick's recollections of training exercises and the camaraderie among their fellow soldiers highlight the bonds forged in service.

Related episodes:

Crewing the Cold War Chieftain tank https://pod.fo/e/155bb4

Cold War Chieftain tank deployment at the East German Border https://pod.fo/e/157641

The East German Tank Commander https://pod.fo/e/210cee

Episode extras here including Dag's vehicle recognition manual https://coldwarconversations.com/episode379/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

 
00:00 Introduction
02:35 How do you become an East German Tank commander?
07:28 Selection and training for British tank crew
08:51 Were you selected for the East German border guards?
12:39 Differences in training areas and exercises
18:20 Unit cohesion - differences between conscript and professional armies
21:42 Enemy vehicle recognition
24:17 Benefits of a professional army and all arms training in Canada
28:30 Doctrines of each army - defence vs attack
31:00 Change of East German doctrine to a defensive posture
33:55 Plan to Attack Poland in 1981
38:10 If the East German army had crossed the West German border
43:02 Challenges of breaking through the border fortifications
45:03 East German view of the Soviets
51:26 What was the T72 like to operate?
56:44 Benefits of Chieftain's thermal imaging system
59:52 Training of the Chieftain crew if the thermal imaging system failed.
01:04:57 The British Army's secret weapons - the boiling vessel
01:09:51 Refuelling & ammunition replenishment
01:14:34 T72 autoloader
01:19:13 T72 snorkel
01:25:14 Final comments between the crews
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Foes to Friends: Cold War British and East German Tank crew together in conversation (379)

Today we are transported back to a pivotal moment in history that occurred 35 years ago this month - the Romanian Revolution of 1989. 

This episode is from our archive and features, Mark Brayne, a former Reuters and BBC journalist, who provides a gripping first-hand account of the tumultuous events that led to the fall of Nicolae Ceausescu. As Mark recounts his experiences, listeners are given a rare glimpse into the life of a journalist reporting from a war zone.

He embarks on a perilous journey to Bucharest, navigating roadblocks and dodging bullets to report on the revolution. His determination to capture the story amidst chaos and danger is a testament to the courage and resilience of journalists who risk their lives to bring us the news.

Beyond the historical events, Mark shares personal reflections on how these experiences shaped his life and career. The emotional intensity of covering such significant moments led him to a new path as a psychotherapist, helping others navigate their own traumas.

This episode is not just a recounting of history but an exploration of the human stories behind the headlines. It highlights the bravery of journalists like Mark, who venture into the unknown to bring us closer to the truth. For anyone interested in history, journalism, or the human condition, this episode is a must-listen.

Related episodes:

Mark - A UK Journalist in the Soviet Union & GDR https://pod.fo/e/1c4ef

Mark - A British Journalist under Stasi Surveillance https://pod.fo/e/1e111

The Human Factor: Gorbachev, Reagan, and Thatcher, and the End of the Cold War https://pod.fo/e/17bf8

Reporting on the 1989 Revolution in Romania and the Czechoslovak Velvet Revolution https://pod.fo/e/2544b1

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode380/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Under Fire: A Journalist's Story of the 1989 Romanian Revolution (380)

The Gulf of Tonkin incident, was a pivotal moment that escalated U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.

I talked with US Marine Veteran John F. Davies, who researched the Gulf of Tonkin Incident. He shares a personal connection and insights on the political and military decisions that led to one of America's most controversial conflicts. 

Discover the intricate dance of diplomacy, military strategy, and political manoeuvring that shaped this critical historical period.

All our combat episodes in one convenient playlist https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6j6YJmRWzt42kYiPGkcFfa?si=95e5366e4ad945a3

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode381/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

00:00 Introduction
01:23 Personal Connection to the Incident
03:45 Political Context and Decisions
15:30 The Gulf of Tonkin Incident
45:00 Consequences and Reflections
57:30 Conclusion
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The Truth about the Gulf of Tonkin incident that sparked the Vietnam War (381)

Author Daniela Richterova new book "Watching the Jackals" tells the untold history of Czechoslovakia's complex relations with Middle Eastern terrorists and revolutionaries during the closing decades of the Cold War

In the 1970s and 1980s, Prague became a favourite destination for the world's most prominent terrorists and revolutionaries. They arrived here to seek refuge, enjoy recreation, or hold secret meetings aimed at securing training, arms, and other forms of support. While some were welcomed with open arms, others were closely watched and were eventually ousted.

Watching the Jackals is the untold history of Czechoslovakia's complex relations with Middle Eastern terrorists and revolutionaries during the closing decades of the Cold War. Based on recently declassified intelligence files, Richterova unveils the story of Prague's engagement with various factions of the Palestine Liberation Organization, along with some of the era's most infamous terrorists, including Carlos the Jackal, the Munich Olympics massacre commander Abu Daoud, and the Abu Nidal Organization. In this gripping account, Richterova explains why "Cold War Jackals" gravitated toward Prague and how the country's leaders reacted to their visits, and she uncovers the role Czechoslovakia's security and intelligence apparatus – the StB (Státní bezpečnost) played in these, at times, dangerous liaisons.

Drawing on interviews and remarkably detailed records from the former Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic), Richterova offers readers interested in the intelligence world a fascinating account of how states use their spies to pursue covert policies with violent nonstate actors. The book also introduces new evidence and nuances into old debates about whether the Communist Bloc supported terrorism.

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode382/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Watching the Jackals: Prague's Covert Liaisons with Cold War Terrorists and Revolutionaries (382)

David Mackay is a former Cold War special forces officer and author of Bubbleheads, SEALs and Wizards: America's Scottish Bastion in the Cold War. He returns by popular demand to share his compelling journey through military service in the British Army's Parachute Regiment. 

From his humble beginnings in Scotland to his experiences in the Parachute Regiment, David recounts tales of courage, leadership, and the harsh realities of conflict. 

Hear about his time in Northern Ireland, the challenges and adventures of United Nations Peacekeeping in Cyprus, and service in Cold War Berlin. 

Discover how these experiences shaped his perspective on life, leadership, and the world. Join me for an unforgettable exploration of military life and its enduring impact.

All our combat episodes in one convenient playlist https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6j6YJmRWzt42kYiPGkcFfa?si=95e5366e4ad945a3

Buy David's book here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9781849955546

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode383/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bombs, Berlin & Peacekeeping: A Paratrooper's Cold War Story Pt 1 (383)

David Mackay is a former Cold War special forces officer and author of Bubbleheads, SEALs and Wizards: America's Scottish Bastion in the Cold War. He continues his unvarnished anecdotes about his Cold War career as an officer in the Parachute Regiment. 

The conversation extends to further experiences in East Berlin, West Germany, Nigeria, and Northern Ireland, highlighting the varied roles and military duties he undertook—from Flag Patrols in East Berlin to being shot by the IRA with many stops in between. 

Through David’s unique humorous and reflective storytelling he sheds light on the often absurd and dangerous realities of being a British officer during the Cold War.

All our combat episodes in one convenient playlist https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6j6YJmRWzt42kYiPGkcFfa?si=95e5366e4ad945a3

Buy David book here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9781849955546

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode384/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From Cold War Berlin to Belfast – A Paratrooper’s Story Pt 2 (384)

In the tense years of the early Cold War, American and Soviet women conducted a remarkable pen-pal correspondence that enabled them to see each other as friends rather than enemies.

In a compelling new perspective on the early Cold War, prizewinning historian Alexis Peri’s new book “Dear Unknown Friend” explores the correspondence between American and Soviet women beginning in the last years of World War II and continuing into the 1950s. 

Previously unexamined, the women’s letters movingly demonstrate the power of the personal, as the pen pals engaged in a “diplomacy of the heart” that led them to question why their countries were so divided.

Buy the book here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9780674987586

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode385/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Letters across the Iron Curtain - Unseen Cold War Correspondence between Soviet and American Women (385)

During the Cold War Sweden outwardly maintained its neutrality, however from the 1960s the U.S. secretly promised to provide military force in aid of Sweden in case of Soviet aggression. As part of the military cooperation, the U.S. provided much help in the development of the Saab 37 Viggen aircraft.

I spoke with Benke, a former Swedish Air Force pilot who flew the Viggen. He shares his path to becoming a pilot in the Air Force, the intricacies of flight training, encounters with Soviet aircraft during the Cold War, and the unique challenges faced by the Swedish Air Force.
 
Join me for an insightful discussion that highlights the passion for flying and the realities of Cold War military aviation!

Episode extras here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode386/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Defending Baltic Skies : A Swedish Air Force Pilot's Cold War (386)

Last year I was given the unique opportunity to visit the Nottingham War Rooms. The site is about to be re-developed so it was a rare chance to see a British Regional Seat of Government bunker that has lain relatively untouched since the end of the Cold War. 

The voices you will hear are Dan Cordle, an Expert in Nuclear Culture & History and Parmi Uppal, Estates Manager for Homes England. 

Don’t miss the link to the videos and photos in the episode information here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode387/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Frozen in Time - the Cold War Nottingham War Rooms (387)

David Arnold joined the merchant navy at just 14. His tales offer a glimpse into the rigorous and sometimes harsh realities of naval training in the 1950s.

His story takes us through his progression in the merchant navy, where he earned his extra master's ticket, a rare and prestigious qualification that opened doors to a career in marine surveying and beyond. 

David recounts his experiences with the Royal Naval Reserve, particularly his time aboard the nuclear submarine, Valiant where we are treated to a behind-the-scenes look at Cold War-era missions, including covert operations. 

David's engaging storytelling and wealth of experience make for a captivating narrative. 

Don’t miss the link to the videos and photos in the episode information here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode388/

The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve Cold War history. 

You’ll become part of our community, get ad-free episodes, and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, we welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Find the ideal gift for the Cold War enthusiast in your life! Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/store/

Follow us on BlueSky https://bsky.app/profile/coldwarpod.bsky.social

Follow us on Threads https://www.threads.net/@coldwarconversations

Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/

Youtube https://youtube.com/@ColdWarConversations

Love history? Join Intohistory https://intohistory.com/coldwarpod

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From the Merchant Navy to Covert Hunter Killer Nuclear Submarine Missions (388)

Michael Rafferty was posted to Berlin in 1988. He served in the 287th Military Police Company at Checkpoint Charlie and was there through to the historic opening of the Berlin Wall qne the removal of the checkpoint in 1990. 
 I have always been intrigued by a video posted in Youtube filmed in the 1980s by a then young US army soldier documenting his first days in Berlin for his family back at home. 
 Now I never dreamed that I would find, let alone talk to that soldier, but through the magic of the internet we got in contact and Michael Rafferty agreed to give his first interview in 24 years to Cold War Conversations. 
His story spans the last days of Checkpoint Charlie, from when the border was the heavily fortified barrier familiar to us from those spy films to the opening of the wall and the unification of Germany. 
 I am delighted and honoured to welcome Michael Rafferty. 

Episode notes here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode13/

Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/
Follow us on Twitter https://twitter.com/ColdWarPod
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/coldwarpod/
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/coldwarconversations/
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A US soldier at Checkpoint Charlie when the Berlin Wall opened (13)

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