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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Today, I’m talking with Hinge founder and CEO Justin McLeod. Hinge is one of the biggest dating apps in the United States — it’s rivaled only by Tinder, and both are owned by the massive conglomerate Match Group, which has consolidated a huge chunk of the online dating ecosystem. 

Justin and I dug into that here, and we also explored some of the thorny issues around AI and dating, Hinge’s monetization, and data privacy in the second Trump administration. This is a fun one, with a whole lot going on. I think you’ll like it. 

Read the full interview transcript here on The Verge. 

Links: 

 How We Do Things | Hinge

 Hinge’s First Gen Z Report | Hinge

 Hinge’s new AI feature judges your prompt responses | TechCrunch

 When Cupid Is a prying journalist | NYT / Modern Love

 Tinder CEO Faye Iosotaluno to step down in July | CNBC

 Match Group CEO Rascoff to lead struggling Tinder app | WSJ

 Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder

 Apple ordered to keep web links in the App Store | Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hinge CEO Justin McLeod says dating AI chatbots is 'playing with fire'

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. Decoder is on a short summer break right now, but we’ll be back starting June 23 with new episodes, and we’re very excited for what we have on the schedule. 

In the meantime, we have an episode from the excellent podcast Stay Tuned with Preet, with host and former U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara. Last month, Preet sat down with former FTC Chair Lina Khan for a pretty high-level discussion about antitrust, monopoly power, and the ongoing shift from both political parties in the United States toward more aggressive, bipartisan regulation of Big Tech. I think you’ll find it really interesting. 

 

Links: 

 Stay Tuned with Preet | Apple Podcasts

 Google loses ad tech monopoly case | Verge

 Judge greenlights FTC’s antitrust suit against Amazon | Verge

 Judge rules that Google ‘is a monopolist’ in US antitrust case | Verge

 Illegally fired FTC commissioners on Meta, bribes, and fighting for privacy | Decoder

 The case for breaking up Google has never been stronger | Decoder

 DOJ antitrust chief is ‘overjoyed’ after Google monopoly verdict | Decoder

 DOJ’s Kanter says the antitrust fight against Big Tech is just beginning | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Monopoly isn’t a game (with Lina Khan)

Today, I’m talking with Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith. Taskrabbit is an interesting company; it’s known best for being a platform for hiring people to put together your furniture, so much so that Ikea acquired it in 2017. But Taskrabbit is still operating as a mostly independent company all these years later, and Ania is now in charge of maneuvering a fast-changing labor market during uncertain economic times and a potentially major AI disruption to the workforce on the horizon.

Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out a brief survey: voxmedia.com/survey. We’d really appreciate it. Thanks!

Links: 

 Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app | Decoder

 Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay with reinventing the bus | Decoder

 Google’s Project Mariner | Google

 Uber is testing a service that lets you hire drivers for chores | Verge

 Taskrabbit CEO on using empathy in leadership | Fortune

 Taskrabbit takes over on-demand moving service Dolly | GeekWire

 Ikea integrates Taskrabbit booking service into checkout | Retail Dive

 TaskRabbit to close its offices, go entirely remote | MarketWatch

 IKEA has bought TaskRabbit | TechCrunch

 Taskrabbit CEO: People will still power an AI workforce | Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Taskrabbit CEO Ania Smith isn’t afraid of AI robots replacing human labor

Today, I’m talking with Runway CEO and co-founder Cris Valenzuela. This one’s special: Cris and I were live at an event in New York City last month hosted by Alix Partners, so you’ll hear the audience from time to time. 

Runway is a leading AI video generation platform, and it’s getting better all the time. That puts Cris and his company on the same collision course with creators, artists, and copyright law as every other part of the AI industry — and you’ll hear Cris and I really get into all that here.

Links: 

 AMC Networks inks deal with AI company Runway | Hollywood Reporter

 We made a film with AI. You’ll be blown away — and freaked out | WSJ

 Mark Zuckerberg just declared war on the entire advertising industry | Verge

 Runway says its latest AI video model can generate consistent scenes, people | Verge

 Runway releases an impressive new video-generating AI model | TechCrunch

 Runway Trained on Thousands of YouTube Videos Without Permission | 404 Media

 Runway partners with Lionsgate to train on its catalog of video | Verge

 AI companies lose bid to dismiss parts of visual artists' copyright case | Reuters

Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out this ⁠brief survey⁠. Thank you!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why Runway CEO Cris Valenzuela thinks AI filmmaking is the future

Today, I’m talking with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. This is Brian’s fourth time on the show, and he’s one of my favorite guests because he’s so clearly obsessed with things like company structure, design, and decision making. You know, Decoder stuff. 

This time, Brian came on to talk about the company’s new services product and the full-scale redesign and rebuild of the Airbnb app to support these broader ambitions. There’s a lot of fun, very Decoder-y stuff in this one. Read the full transcript here on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Airbnb’s new app has all of your vacation extras in one place | Verge

 “Flat design is over” | Brian Chesky

 Airbnb Is in midlife crisis mode | Wired

 He revolutionized travel. Can Airbnb’s founder redesign your entire life? | WSJ

 Airbnb’s CEO explains how he helped Sam Altman during OpenAI fiasco | Fast Company

 A conversation with Airbnb’s Brian Chesky | Figma

 Jony Ive is bringing his design talents to Airbnb | Verge

 Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky on what founder mode really means | Decoder

 Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky is taking it back to basics | Decoder

 Why the future of work is the future of travel, with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky | Decoder

Help us plan for the future of Decoder by filling out this brief survey. Thank you!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky wants to build the everything app

Today, I’m talking with journalist Megan Greenwell about her new book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream. It comes out June 10th. It's fantastic and maddening in equal measure. I highly recommend it. 

In this episode, we discussed the genesis of Megan’s interest in the subject and its genesis in media — including her time as editor-in-chief of the website Deadspin, which underwent a very public PE takeover of its parent company. We also talk a lot about the healthcare industry, another major pillar of Megan’s book. I'm excited to hear what you think of this one.

Links: 

 Bad Company | HarperCollins

 Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder

 Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT

 I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT

 Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace

 The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox

 Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic

 The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinde
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How private equity kills companies and communities

In what's become a bit of a Decoder tradition, I spoke with Google CEO Sundar Pichai in person after I/O. The conference this year was all about AI, particularly a slew of actual AI products, not just models and capabilities.

To Sundar, this marks the beginning of a new era for search and the web overall. So I had to ask: what happens to the web when AI tools and eventually agents do most of the browsing for us? It was a very Decoder conversation. Read the full transcript here. 

Links: 

 Help us plan the future of Decoder! | AUDIENCE SURVEY

 The 15 biggest announcements at Google I/O 2025 | Verge

 We tried on Google’s prototype AI smart glasses | Verge

 AI Mode is obviously the future of Google Search | Verge

 News publishers call Google’s AI Mode ‘theft’ | Verge

 Details leak about Jony Ive’s OpenAI device | Verge

 DOJ says Google must sell Chrome to crack open monopoly | Verge

 Google Zero is here — now what? | Verge

 Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi is okay reinventing the bus | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Google CEO Sundar Pichai on the next phase of AI

Today, I’m talking with Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi. We recorded this conversation on the same day Uber announced a big set of product updates, including new options for shared rides. Dara was in New York for all that, so he came to our studio and we did this one together, which always makes for a great episode. 

If you’ve been listening to Decoder recently, you know that I’m very curious about how service apps like Uber will handle things like AI agents. Dara had a lot of thoughts there. There’s a lot in this one, and Dara didn’t hold back. I think you’re going to like it.

Links: 

 Uber’s new bus-like feature is nearly 50 percent cheaper than UberX | Verge

 An interview with Dara Khosrowshahi | Stratechery

 Uber preps for Waymo’s robotaxi launch in Atlanta | Verge

 Uber ends year in the black for the first time ever | Verge

 Uber’s not out of the woods yet | Verge

 UberX Share brings carpooling back to NYC and eight other cities | Verge

 Uber CEO vows to be ‘hardcore’ about costs, slow hiring | Verge

Transcript

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why Uber's CEO is okay with reinventing the bus

Today, I’m talking with Kevin Scott, the chief technology officer of Microsoft, and one of the company’s AI leaders. Kevin is one of my favorite repeat Decoder guests, and he joined the show this time to talk about the future of search. 

Microsoft just announced an open-source tool for websites to integrate AI powered natural language search with just a little bit of effort, in a way that lets them actually run whatever models they want and keep control of their data. I saw some demos before Kevin and I chatted, and the improvements over the bad local search on most sites was obvious. So we talked about what this will mean for AI, for search engines, and for the future of the web. 

Links: 

 Microsoft’s plan to fix the web: letting every website run AI search for cheap | Verge

 Microsoft Build 2025: news and announcements from the developer conference | Verge

 Introducing the Model Context Protocol | Anthropic

 Copyright Office head fired after reporting AI training isn’t always fair use | Ars Technica

 Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI and art will coexist in the future | Decoder 

 Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott thinks Sydney might make a comeback | Decoder

 Microsoft’s CTO explains how AI can help health care in the US right now | Vergecast

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/669409

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Microsoft CTO Kevin Scott on how AI can save the web, not destroy it

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people. 

Links: 

 Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday

 AI Index Report | Stanford HAI

 IBM AI Study | IBM

 How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday

 Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch

 Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider

 Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters

 Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press

 Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/667538

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Workday's new product head hopes he can make you like Workday

New York Times White House correspondent Maggie Haberman and Washington Post reporter David Fahrenthold talk with Recode's Kara Swisher at the 2017 Texas Tribune Festival in Austin. Both known for their coverage of Donald Trump's campaign and White House, they talk about how they accidentally became Trump reporters and what others in the media get wrong about the president. They also explain how they, as journalists, use Twitter — which Haberman calls "the anger video game" — and what they would be reporting on if they were not on the Trump beat.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode Decode: Maggie Haberman, New York Times, and David Fahrenthold, Washington Post

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