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WBUR

Untold histories, unsolved mysteries, and other jaw-dropping stories online and IRL. Hosted by Ben Brock Johnson & Amory Sivertson.

Endless Thread

Long before TikTok dances, there was the Dougie.

In 2010, Cali Swag District’s “Teach Me How to Dougie” went worldwide, and for the decade-plus since, people have been trying to learn the viral moves.

More than 15 years later, a Korean TikTok creator went viral for doing the Dougie… badly. He claimed to be learning how to do the Dougie day-by-day – but his moves were so stiff and awkward, viewers from around the world – including Endless Thread producer Kalyani Saxena — were suspicious. Was @JBStarMax faking being bad at the Dougie? Kalyani presents her investigation to Ben and Amory.

Show notes:

 • “Day 1 of learning to do the Dougie until I can do it smoothly” (@JBStarMax on 
TikTok • )

 • Breakdancing (@JBStarMax on 
TikTok • )

 • Know Your L.A. Hip-Hop Dances: The Controversial Origin Story of The Dougie (
LA Weekly • )

 • Ben does the crabwalk, and Amory does the worm (
WBUR • )

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter and co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena, Ben Brock Johnson, and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski.

Teach us how to Dougie

Kurt Gödel was a genius mathematician and logician, considered by many scholars to be as influential as Aristotle. He was also buddies with fellow geniuses Albert Einstein and Oskar Morgenstern, the co-creator of Game Theory.

In 1947, Gödel told Morgenstern and Einstein he had identified an inner contradiction in the U.S. Constitution while studying for his citizenship test: the type of loophole that could plunge the United States into a dictatorship not unlike the Nazi regime Gödel had escaped when he immigrated from Austria.

So, what was the loophole? Over the years, everyone from Constitutional law scholars to laypeople on Reddit have wondered. Endless Thread plumbs the depths of Gödel's galaxy brain with the help of philosopher, writer and Gödel expert Rebecca Newberger Goldstein — and learns some surprising lessons about artificial intelligence, a German shorthand called Gabelsberger, and democracy along the way.

Show notes:

 • Incompleteness: The Proof and Paradox of Kurt Gödel, by Rebecca Newberger Goldstein (
Amazon • )

 • Oskar Morgenstern's account of Kurt Gödel's naturalization (
Institute of Advanced Study • )

This episode was produced by Grace Tatter. It was co-written by Grace Tatter and Ben Brock Johnson, co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

The Lost Loophole

The climate crisis is escalating. We have to decarbonize our economy, but we’re moving too slowly. So, what’s the backup plan? This season of How We Survive is about engineering nature: large-scale interventions that could be our last hope. We’ll explore technology that could alter our weather patterns, transform our planet, and possibly save us all from the worst outcomes of the climate crisis. Or lead to catastrophic, unintended consequences. 

In this episode, host Amy Scott travels to the Bay Area to learn about a controversial solution to the climate crisis. It’s called solar geoengineering, and it’s basically a way to dim the sun to cool the planet. Some proponents view this as a necessary intervention, while others are not convinced. And while solar geoengineering is happening at a small scale, what happens if a rogue nation…or a rogue billionaire…makes the decision for us?

Listen to How We Survive wherever you get your podcasts: https://link.podtrac.com/kobh1a3u

How to Dim the Sun, from Marketplace's How We Survive

Most of us know the internet isn't a particularly private place. Yet there's a certain feeling of anonymity that comes with sharing online — our words and stories mixed in with millions of others. It's easy to think no one is watching.

But your data isn't just vulnerable to prying eyes. It's for sale. And the government is buying it up to keep a closer eye on you — and all of us.

This week, hosts Amory and Ben take a chilling look at how our social media is used for surveillance with Dell Cameron, an investigative reporter with WIRED covering privacy and national security.

 ICE Wants to Build Out a 24/7 Social Media Surveillance Team • (WIRED)

 Homeland Security Wants Social Media Sites to Expose Anti-ICE Accounts • (The New York Times)

 ICE has spun a massive surveillance web. We talked to people caught in it • (NPR)

 • To reach Endless Thread on Signal: 
646-456-9095
 

This episode was written and produced by Kalyani Saxena and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw and Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal

Socials for Sale

This episode was originally published on March 21, 2025. 

There are moments that define each of our lives. Some we can predict: graduations, marriages, births, deaths. Others? Not so much.

And in the year 2025, when the stars aligned just so, you may have found that moment explode online.

That's what happened to 23-year-old Adrián Simancas. Last year in Feb. 2025, Adrián was paddling the Straight of Magellan, with his father Dell, when the unimaginable happened: a humpback whale emerged from the water and engulfed him in its open mouth — and his father captured it all on video. Almost immediately, the video went viral.

Simancas sat down with Endless Thread to discuss his whale tale, the deluge of attention that followed, and what he's learned from his intimate moment with nature.

Show notes: 

 Video of Adrián's whale encounter. • We originally saw it on the Reddit thread: r/ThatsInsane

 Adrián Simanca's Youtube channel
 Dell Simanca's Youtube channel
 Did a whale swallow a kayaker? The truth behind the viral video • (NPR)

Encore: Adrián and the Whale

Sit back, relax and get cozy. As a matter of fact, why not put on your baggiest of clothes and burrow down in your snuggiest of blankets? This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory are comfy-maxxing. They'll discuss how the internet is delivering comfort right now, including a look at delicious foods from childhood and an intriguing tip on how to sleep better at night.

Show notes:

 Calling all dad's... Whats your easy go to dinners?! • (Reddit)

 What’s your favorite comfort food from your culture? • (Reddit)

 My weird but effective sleep trick: pretend I’m a medieval peasant • (Reddit)

 • Amory's 
favorite vegan mozzarella recipe • by Miyoko Schinner

This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Dave Shaw. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Comfort maxxing on the interwebs

Once upon a dimly lit hallway, Ben and Amory stumbled onto a beloved brainchild of the internet: Backrooms. It began as a "creepypasta"— a horror story or concept that originates online and often becomes a meme — based on the idea of glitching into an inescapable prison of empty rooms. Back in 2020, Endless Thread discussed how this chilling kernel of internet lore migrated from 4chan to Reddit. Now, "Backrooms" is a major motion picture from A24.

Amory and Ben take a little field trip to the theater to see the film and discuss how the concept holds up in the hands of Hollywood.

Back to the Backrooms!

Journalist Leon Neyfakh — known for the podcasts Slow Burn, Fiasco, and Backfired — wanted to know more about the massively popular and sprawling online ecosystem of OnlyFans. What are its nearly 400 million users really getting from it, and what can that tell all of us about relationships forged online? To find out, he teamed up with Gracie Canaan, a stand-up comedian and OnlyFans creator.

Ben and Amory sat down with them at the WBUR Festival to hear all about their new podcast for Audible, OnlyFantasy, in which they examine this bustling digital marketplace of sex and emotions, and try to understand the role it plays in the lives and relationships of the buyers and sellers.

Show notes:
OnlyFantasy (Audible)

This conversation was produced by Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson. It was edited down by Grace Tatter. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Endless Thread on OnlyFans

Jeremy Rellosa used to watch TV shows and movies from the '90s and revel in how the characters walked around untethered to a smartphone, with no expectations of constant connectivity. So he decided to run an experiment on himself: he'd live for at least two weeks without a smartphone. No Slack. No text messages. No Instagram or WhatsApp. If his friends, family, or boss wanted to reach him, they'd have to call him on his landline.

Sure, landlines were the norm just a couple of decades ago. But in our always-online world, how feasible is the landline life, really? Ben and Amory call Jeremy up to find out.

Show notes:

"I Turned Off My Phone for a Month and Used a Landline" (New York Magazine)

This episode was written and produced by Grace Tatter and edited by Meg Cramer and Dave Shaw. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Leave a message after the beep

Try reading this description as fast as you can: Ben and Amory zoom through two internet stories connected to speed running, including a look at a mysterious object on Reddit and an online trend directed at the Church of Scientology.

Show notes:

 Found in my son’s room • (Reddit)

 Storming Scientology Buildings: TikTok Trend or Hate Crime? • (The New York Times)

 What is a ‘Scientology speedrun’ and why is social media suddenly obsessed with it? • (The Guardian)

The Church of Speedrun!

When Endless Thread producer Nora Saks learned that a "toxic, self-cloning worm that poops out of its mouth" was invading Maine, she started sounding the alarm about the impending eco-doom.

Until, that is, state experts clued her into the "real threat" : A different creepy crawly wriggling towards The Pine Tree State's gardens and precious forests, and fast. In this rebroadcast from January 2023, Endless Thread tunnels down a wormhole, encountering a long history of xenophobic rhetoric about so-called invasive species, and some hard truths about the field of invasion biology itself.

Worm Wars

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