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Michael Max

Acupuncture and East Asian medicine was not developed in a laboratory. It does not advance through double-blind controlled studies, nor does it respond well to petri dish experimentation. Our medicine did not come from the statistical regression of randomized cohorts, but from the observation and treatment of individuals in their particular environment. It grows out of an embodied sense of understanding how life moves, unfolds, develops and declines.

Medicine comes from continuous, thoughtful practice of what we do in clinic, and how we approach that work. The practice of medicine is more — much more — than simply treating illness. It is more than acquiring skills and techniques. And it is more than memorizing the experiences of others. It takes a certain kind of eye, an inquiring mind and relentlessly inquisitive heart.

Qiological is an opportunity to deepen our practice with conversations that go deep into acupuncture, herbal medicine, cultivation practices, and the practice of having a practice. It’s an opportunity to sit in the company of others with similar interests, but perhaps very different minds. Through these dialogues perhaps we can better understand our craft.

Qiological Podcast

Ever think about how much of what we do as healers is more about what we don’t do? Sometimes, it’s in the subtle pauses, the empty spaces, where the real magic happens. What if the art of doing less is actually the key to unlocking profound change in the body?

In this conversation with David White we immerse ourselves into the world of Nei Jing acupuncture. With decades of experience and a passion for classical Chinese texts, David has honed a unique approach to acupuncture, one that’s rooted in precision, intention, and an unshakeable respect for the unseen forces at play in the body.

Listen into this discussion as we explore acupuncture as a tool of communication, the hidden power of empty spaces, the art of needling with precise intention, and why sometimes the most effective treatments are the simplest. Along with how the Nei Jing can guide us, both practically and philosophically.

386 Nei Jing Acupuncture, Encountering the Empty Spaces • David White

There is something in the essence of a practice. At the core is something precious, true and fundamental. We all have it. But you probably don’t know what it is, and you won’t until many years down the road of pursuing the work.

Curious that what is of essence, what is at the core of our work, is hidden from us. 

It’s a journey of discovery to that which is the north star of how we work as an expression of who we are.

In this conversation with Philippe Vandenabelle we explore the “book we read again and again,” the aspects of our work that are essential to how we practice that slowly emerges over time. 

Listen into this conversation on how practitioner development is a kind of ripening, the gift of being connected to people from a different time, and how the challenges in our work are exactly what we need to discover more about the essential core from which we work.

387 Discovering the Essential • Philippe Vandenabelle

Ever notice how certain places and connections shape us in unexpected ways? Sometimes, it’s the unique character of a small town, the rhythm of a rural life, that offers opportunities you won’t find in an urban environment. It’s here where time flows a bit differently that relationships and healing move to a different cadence.

In this conversation with Katie Munger, we wander through her journey of building a practice in a small town, where her work has become woven into the fabric of the community. With over 20 years of experience, Katie reflects on how her practice and the relationships she’s cultivated have shaped her as much as she has shaped them.

Listen into this discussion as we explore the unique challenges and rewards of rural practice, the importance of being fully present with patients, the power of hands-on listening, and the challenge of following your heart, even when the path isn’t clear.

Katie’s story is a reminder that healing isn’t just about techniques—it’s about connection, presence, and being a part of something larger.

388 Practicing in Small Town America • Katie Munger

For centuries books have been part of the transmission of knowledge from one generation to another. They have always been powerful tools for learning. Especially in the early days of Chinese medicine in the West, because of their rarity. 

In this conversation with Bob Felt, one of the early publishers of Chinese medicine books in English, we take a journey back to a time when books on acupuncture were scarce, but curiosity and commitment were steadily increasing. Bob shares his story that began in the counterculture movement of the 1960s and that revolutionary spirit fueled a career that helped to bring important texts from the treasury of Chinese medicine into English.

Listen into this discussion as we explore the early days of macrobiotics, the challenges of publishing groundbreaking books, the evolution of acupuncture education in the West, and the ongoing need for practitioners to connect with their communities.

389 History Series, From Counterculture to Classics • Bob Felt

Change is usually a tangle of both challenges and opportunities. The landscape of acupuncture has been shifting, from the health of our schools to the growing acceptance of our medicine in larger healthcare systems. These transitions ask us to reflect, adapt, and discover new ways to thrive.

In this conversation with Robert Hoffman, acupuncturist, educator, and administrator, we explore the crossroads our profession is facing. With experience as the president of a school, a commissioner at ACOM, and a leader in state organizations, Robert shares his insights on sustaining and growing the profession and the institutions that train future practitioners.

Listen into this discussion as we unpack the struggles facing acupuncture schools, the rise of integrative and institutional opportunities, the demographic shifts in students, and the adaptability required to navigate this ever-changing profession.

Robert’s reflections remind us that the resilience of Chinese medicine lies in its ability to evolve while honoring its roots. His perspective offers a roadmap for ensuring our medicine continues to flourish in a world that increasingly accepts acupuncture, but doesn’t always support acupuncturists.

390 Acupuncture at a Crossroads • Robert Hoffman

Sometimes the most profound truths are found in watching what happens when we move between guidance and control. Between letting things unfold and imposing our will. 

Evan Mahoney brings a rich tapestry of experience to our discussion, from his own journey of healing through meditation and acupuncture to his explorations of dream interpretation through the lens of Korean Saam acupuncture. His path has been illuminated through serendipity, necessity, and years of dedicated study with Dr. Tae Cheong Choo. 

Listen in to this discussion on the three levels of human needs in Saam acupuncture, how dreams reveal our constitutional patterns, and why an acupuncturist's learning curve sometimes involves discovering what not to do. 

There's something illuminating about sitting with a practitioner who's willing to share both their successes and their moments of recalibration. Often enough, it's in these honest exchanges that we find the most valuable insights.

391 Meditations on Saam • Evan Mahoney

Moxa is often seen as acupuncture's quieter sibling, and yet it has a rich history of igniting healing, longevity, and vitality. Its warmth goes beyond the physical—it has a profound effect on our physiology.

In this conversation with Oran Kivity and Merlin Young, we delve into the often overlooked art and science of moxa. While its roots are in traditional East Asian medicine there is some interesting research that suggests it has a role in modern health interventions in terms of treating pain. 

Listen into this discussion as we explore the surprising science behind moxa's effectiveness, the idea and use of moxa as a people's medicine, its potential for addressing chronic conditions, and the role it can play in fostering community health.

392 Igniting Wellness- The Power of Moxa • Merlin Young & Oran Kivity

It’s the subtler forces—those quietly felt but not perceived—that create the background that frames our days with a tone that is both transparent and influential. The shifting energies of a new year are a slack tide of opportunity to pause and reflect. To consider directions for where to invest our life energy in the coming year.

In this conversation with Gregory Done, playfully explore the symbols and energies of the Wood Snake. We look into the qualities of this unique year and its connection to yin fire, quiet transformation, and the turn of the wheel that feels more like the stillness of the hub.

Listen into this discussion as we explore the symbolism of the wood snake, the balance between action and stillness, the transformative power of introspection, and how understanding the year’s energy can inform personal and collective growth.

Gregory’s reflections remind us of the profound lessons embedded in the natural cycles of life. It’s a timely conversation about embracing quietude, finding clarity, and aligning with the unique, and perhaps unsettling capacity to see in the emptiness of mind and social agreements in the coming year.

393 Year of the Snake- Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form • Gregory Done

Transformation arises from the unknown. In a world that often craves certainty, the practice of staying with discomfort, observing its rhythm, and allowing clarity to emerge can lead to remarkable insights—not just in healing, but in how we live.

In this conversation with Stephen Cowan, we explore how the art of not-knowing-yet invites discovery. Stephen shares his journey from Western medicine to the integrative, emergent practices of Chinese medicine, where curiosity and connection form the foundation of healing.

Listen into this discussion as we delve into the maps of Chinese medicine that guide us through uncertainty, the role of storytelling and connection in clinical practice, the rhythm of emotions and their impact on health, and how integrating presence and curiosity can transform both patients and practitioners.

394 Befriending Uncertainty • Stephen Cowan

Following a blueprint is fine for building structures, but when it comes to life choices, someone else’s recipe for success probably will be only marginally helpful. Plans are helpful, and perspective even more so.

In this conversation with Sydney Malawer, we explore what it means to build a practice that actually works for you. From rejecting conventional business advice to embracing a model based on sufficiency instead of relentless growth, Sydney shares the mindset shifts and strategic choices that have allowed her to create a thriving, sustainable practice in one of the most competitive markets in the country.

Listen into this discussion as we discuss redefining success in practice, why charging higher rates can lead to a more sustainable clinic, navigating the tension between capitalism and integrity, and how understanding your own archetype can shape the way you run your business.

This conversation is a reminder that there’s no one-size-fits-all approach to building a practice. What matters most is knowing what works for you and having the courage to bet on yourself.

395 Business, Go Your Own Way • Sydney Malawer

Dr. Wang Ju-Yi was ever curious about why some treatments worked and others did not. He deeply studied the classical literature along with his own clinical experience, and somewhere along the way started putting his hands on patients to simply see what the channels had to say. 

For those practitioners who find palpation to be a key part of their practice, the work of Dr. Wang opens a whole new way of interacting with patients. And for those who are interested in how to puzzle through confounding clinical cases, Dr. Wang has some ways of clarifying complex situations. 

Pull up a cup of tea and listen in to this conversation that gives you a personal view of Dr. Wang and his work through the eyes of his apprentice Jason Robertson, co-author of Applied Channel Theory in Chinese Medicine, Wang Ju-Yi’s Lectures on Channel Therapeutics.

 

Head on over to the show notes page for more information about this episode and for links to the resources discussed in the interview.

021 Applied Channel Theory- The Clinical Brilliance of Dr. Wang Ju-Yi • Jason Robertson

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