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Shane Parrish

Deep conversations with the best founders and business leaders that go beyond the usual advice to uncover the timeless principles that drive success.

Master the best of what other people have already figured out. 

If you enjoy the show, please hit the follow button.

The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish

My guest today is Ron Shaich, founder of Panera and chairman of CAVA.

The headlines will tell you that Ron built Panera into a $7.8 billion company. But the real story is far more interesting.

He went all in on Panera. He sold off every other concept they owned, like Au Bon Pain, to focus on on Panera. 

His philosophy is simple: Be long-term greedy, not short-term stupid.

We discuss why profit is always a byproduct (focus on it and you'll lose everything), how to understand the customer, and the real costs of building something great. Today he's repeating the same playbook he used at Panera with CAVA. 

At 71, he tracks his glucose continuously and works out every morning at 8am. He runs quarterly reviews on his life with the same discipline he brought to building companies.

This isn't about restaurants. It's about making painful bets when everyone else is optimizing for next quarter, and understanding that real commitment owns you—you never own it.

-----

Thank you to the sponsors for this episode:

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Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Follow Shane ParrishX ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@ShaneAParrish⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Ron Shaich: Lessons from Building Panera

Steve Wozniak is the engineer who built Apple. 

Then he did something Silicon Valley still doesn't understand: he gave millions of his own money away to early employees, walked away from power, and refused to play the game everyone else was playing.

While HP rejected his design and competitors built walled gardens, Wozniak's philosophy of open architecture, the very one a young Steve Jobs fought against, is what saved Apple long enough for it to become Apple.

This is the story of the reluctant founder who won by refusing to compromise, and a blueprint for success without selling your soul.

-----

Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction 

(01:31) Part 1: Pranks and Paper Computers 

(18:11) Part 2: The First Personal Computer 

(30:46) Part 3: Apple Computer Corporation 

(41:02) Part 4: Apple's Decline 

(46:02) Epilogue 

(48:02) Rules To Live By

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Steve Wozniak: The Engineer Who Built Apple [Outliers]

Anthony Scilipoti is one of the sharpest minds in investing. He's the President and CEO of Veritas Group of Companies.

He called the collapses of both Valeant Pharmaceuticals and Nortel before they happened, and now he has some thoughts on AI.

We talk about asking better questions, reading the fine print, the role of short selling, and what it means to be wrong. We explore why AI gives you information but not insight, why cheap risk is often the most expensive, and why nothing matters until it does.

It's a conversation about the difference between seeing and understanding and the discipline to notice what everyone else ignores.

This episode is not investment advice.

It’s time to listen and learn.

-----

About Anthony
Anthony Scilipoti is one of the sharpest minds in investing. He's the President and CEO of Veritas Group of Companies.

-----

Approximate Chapters:

(00:00) Introduction 

(01:26) Early Career 

(02:53) The Enron Scandal 

(05:48) Lessons on Auditing 

(16:12) The AI 'Bubble' and the State of the Market 

(18:46) Ad Break 

(20:50) The AI 'Bubble' and the State of the Market (Cont.) 

(28:12) Parallels Between the Fall of Nortel Networks and the Current AI Economy 

(35:15) Ad Break 

(36:10) Parallels Between the Fall of Nortel Networks and the Current AI Economy (Cont.) 

(39:14) Investing Rules for Better Investments 

(42:14) Red Flags to Look Out for When Investing? 

(45:56) The Rise and Fall of Valeant Pharmaceuticals 

(53:04) Is a Complicated Corporate Structure Bad? 

(55:54) Companies Don't Start Out Being Crooked 

(57:53) Why is EBITDA a Disastrous Measurement? 

(1:00:47) How Should Investors See Stock Options / How to Account for Stock Options 

(1:06:30) What Incentives to Look for in a Company When Investing? 

(1:11:31) The Rise of Index Investing 

(1:15:41) Buybacks and Share Count 

(1:21:21) What Makes Warren Buffett a Unique Investor? 

(1:26:58) The Power of the Retail Investor 

(1:32:30) What Is Success for You?

-----
Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: 

Basecamp: Stop struggling, start making progress. Get somewhere with Basecamp. Sign up free at http://basecamp.com/knowledgeproject

reMarkable: Get your paper tablet at https://www.reMarkable.com today

.tech domains: Nothing says tech like being on .tech https://get.tech/

-----

Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Follow Shane ParrishX ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@ShaneAParrish⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Anthony Scilipoti: The Bubble No One is Talking About

The incredible story of Jim Clayton and the counterintuitive strategies he used to build Clayton Homes into a juggernaut. 

When the bank forced him into bankruptcy at 27, they literally seized everything, including his accountant’s calculator.

He started over and rebuilt following an unconventional playbook. He refused bad loans, vertically integrated everything, and played relentless offense during downturns.

While the home industry collapsed in the 1970s, 1990s, and 2000s, Clayton stayed disciplined. Competitors chased growth with loose credit and failed. He survived every downturn and bought their pieces.

When Warren Buffett read his autobiography, he called days later and paid $1.7 billion in cash.

The lesson: discipline beats hype, vertical integration beats vulnerability, and recessions are buying opportunities.

It’s time to listen and learn.

-----

Some of the lessons in this episode:

1. If you have to swallow a frog, don’t look at it too long.

2. Choose not to participate in recessions.

3. Don’t fight the flow.

4. The best legal department is happy customers.

5. Turn your adversary into an advisor.

6. Bad loans are a virus.

7. There is profit in precision.

8. Own the ecosystem.

9. When you’re lost, trust your instruments.

10. Plant seeds, don’t chase the toy.

-----

This episode was made possible by:

Basecamp: https://basecamp.com/knowledgeproject

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Jim Clayton: Turning Competitors’ Mistakes Into $1.7B [Outliers]

Warren Buffett called Tracy Britt Cool his “fireman” due to her reputation at Berkshire Hathaway for turning around struggling businesses. 

Today, Britt Cool is the co-founder of Kanbrick, where she applies her knowledge to the middle market. 

In this episode, you’ll learn how she went from writing a cold letter to Buffett to being sent in to fix struggling Berkshire subsidiaries, how to evaluate real business performance, and how incentives, culture, and structure line up to create lasting success.

* Learn more and get my 31 highlights from this conversation at: https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/tracy-britt-cool/

-----

Approximate Chapters

00:00 Intro, recent reading, and family life

03:04 Alan Mulally's Turnaround at Ford

04:22 If you're not having fun 4 days out of 5, it's time to move on

05:03 The Pampered Chef Turnaround

07:06 Value Creation is Changing from Investing to Operating

08:38 Why Companies Fail to Adapt

09:23 Upbringing, education, and early career outreach

10:09 Lessons from the Farm

15:48 Writing Letters to CEOs

16:57 Lessons from Warren Buffett

18:25 Ad Break

20:57 Buying Companies at Kanbrick

22:38 The 3 Components of Long-Term Thinking

25:11 Avoiding the Complexity Trap

26:23 Turning Around a Declining Business

28:03 Attracting Talent to a Declining Business

30:29 Matching Structure to Time Horizon

32:00 Growing Margins

33:25 The Process: What to Focus on When Operating a Business

35:10 The Three Buckets of Putting People First

37:00 How to Evaluate Talent

40:16 Avoid These People At All Costs

42:23 Sourcing Deals

43:56 The Five Lenses to Evaluate a Business like Warren Buffett

45:14 How to Evaluate a Moat

49:29 How Quantitative Analysis Misleads

50:25 A Detailed Look at Return on Invested Capital

53:18 What Makes an Attractive Market

54:33 Finding High-Potential Businesses

57:00 The Post Close Playbook

1:02:03 Repeatable Business Systems

1:04:06 Why Copying What Works is Hard

1:06:01 Mistakes in the Past 5 Years

1:10:13 Debt and Leverage

1:12:20 3 Ways to Think about AI

1:15:13 What Most People Get Wrong When Hiring

1:21:12 Businesses to Avoid

1:22:35 What Not to Do

1:24:31 Public vs. Private Company Boards

1:27:04 How Warren Buffett Taught Katharine Graham Business

1:29:28 Each Hire is a Million Dollar Decision

1:31:02 Evaluating Integrity

1:32:36 The One Word That Changes Everything & Keeps People Honest

1:35:52 Principles & Lessons from Business History

1:36:59 Inflation

1:38:46 Quarterly Reporting

1:40:22 Public Company Heroes

1:41:41 Companies & Political Opinions

1:42:46 What is Success for you?

-----

About Tracy

Tracy Britt Cool is the co-founder of Kanbrick and former CEO of Pampered Chef. At Berkshire Hathaway, she worked directly with Warren Buffett as his financial assistant.

-----

This Episode Made Possible By:

Shopify: https://shopify.com/knowledgeproject

reMarkable: https://www.reMarkable.com

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Tracy Britt Cool: Building Great Businesses

Hetty Green was the richest woman you've never heard of.

In the late 1800s, she built a fortune worth billions today in a world designed to stop her. Women couldn't vote, couldn't own property in most states, and were banned from the New York Stock Exchange floor entirely.

She was a force that couldn't be stopped. She bought entire towns, crushed railroad barons, and became the lender of last resort during financial panics. Her strategies still work today.

This is the story of how an unwanted daughter became "The Witch of Wall Street," and a playbook for building lasting wealth and independence.

-----

Some of the lessons in this episode: 

 “I buy when things are low and nobody wants them. I keep them until they go up and people are crazy to get them.”

 Position beats prediction. Always keep cash reserves.

 “If you can manage your brain, you can manage your fortune.”

 “Before deciding on an investment, seek out every kind of information about it.”

 The skills to get rich and the skills to stay rich are not the same.

 “In business generally, don’t close a bargain until you have reflected on it overnight.”

 Only invest when downside risk is low and upside is high.

 Self-reliance is the ultimate competitive advantage.

 Everyone looks smart when they’re in a good position, and even the smartest person looks like a fool in a bad one.

 Panics are temporary. Value is permanent.

 Have a detective’s eye. Uncover what others miss or ignore.

 “I go my own way, take no partners, risk nobody else’s fortune.”

 “Never owe anyone anything. Not even a kindness.”

 Mix extreme patience with extreme decisiveness.

 Never bet against America.

 “Watch your pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.”

 Move in silence. Keep your positions private.

 Never take advantage of people, even when you could.

 “When you try to do too much, you never get anywhere. Focus.”

 Stay connected to reality. Frugality keeps you grounded.

 “When it comes to spending your life, there have to be some things neglected. If you try to do too much, you can never get anywhere.”

 “My work is my amusement.”

 “Property is a trust to be enlarged for future generations.”

 Live by your own rules, not society’s expectations.

 Be fair in all things. Your conscience will haunt you otherwise.

 “Don’t kick a man when he’s down.”

 “Seek elegance rather than luxury, refinement rather than fashion.”

 “When I see a good thing going cheap because nobody wants it, I buy a lot of it and tuck it away.”

 From her favorite poem: “To live content with small means; To seek elegance rather than luxury, And refinement rather than fashion; To be worthy, not respectable, and wealthy, not rich.”

Learn more at https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/outliers-hetty-green/

------

Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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This episode is for informational purposes only.
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Hetty Green: The Witch of Wall Street [Outliers]

My guest this week is Barry Diller, one of America's most successful businessmen. At 83, he chose to publish a deeply personal book and open up about his successes and failures.

With surprising candor he details the rules he's lived by: trust first, confront directly, and make the call when the clock starts. In our conversation, he shares why success teaches you nothing, why failure is essential, and why instinct still beats algorithms in a data-obsessed world.

This episode is filled with Hollywood lore and business acumen. 

-----

About Barry: He is the Chairman and Senior Executive of IAC, and is best known for founding the Fox Broadcasting Company with Rupert Murdoch and leading Paramount Pictures. Over his career, he has reshaped television, film, and online media.

-----

Approximate Timestamps:

(00:00) Intro 

(01:48) Vulnerability and Writing 'Who Knew' 

(05:20) Lack Of Confidence & Fake It Until You Make It 

(17:58) Changes In The Entertainment Industry 

(22:35) Instinct Vs Data 

(27:17) AI's Impact on the Entertainment and Travel Industry 

(42:35) One Dumb Step At A Time 

(52:39) Accountability During Conflict 

(55:06) Public Broadcasting Regulation And Fair Reporting 

(58:04) What Is Success For You 

-----

Basecamp: Stop struggling, start making progress. Get somewhere with Basecamp. Sign up free at http://basecamp.com/knowledgeproject

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.tech domains: Nothing says tech like being on .tech https://get.tech/

MINT MOBILE: If you’re still overpaying for wireless, it’s time to say yes to saying no. At Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no: no contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no B.S. Go to mintmobile.com/knowledgeproject

-----

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------

Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Barry Diller: Building IAC

Ed Stack built Dick’s Sporting Goods from a struggling family store into an empire of more than 800 stores and billions in sales. 

Along the way he nearly lost everything. Multiple times. This episode is the story of what he did, how he did it, and the lessons you can learn.

-----

Some of the things you'll learn in this episode:

 Never rely on the kindness of strangers.

 Your name is your biggest asset.

 The person who talks the least is usually the decision maker.

 Sometimes the most profitable decision on a spreadsheet is the worst decision for a business.

 Good businesses don’t need debt and bad ones can’t handle it.

 When the data and the anecdotes differ, you’re measuring the wrong thing.

 Trust isn’t earned in the easy times; it’s earned in the fire.

 People are rarely buying just your product.

 Give the underdog a chance. They want it more.

 Not knowing what you’re doing can be an asset.

 All money comes with strings.

 Your competition always has something to teach you.

 Always bet on yourself.

 Learn from mistakes, but don’t over-learn them.

 “The moment a business stops evolving, the moment its leaders sit back and think, ‘Everything’s good,’ that’s when it starts to fail.”

 Problems are opportunities to add value.

 Play the game to win.

 Become someone people want to help.

 Investment bankers are not your friends.

 Manically focus on the numbers.

 The recipe is boldness mixed with caution.

 What you get out of anything is directly proportional to what you put in.

 The spreadsheet is not the customer.

 Arguing teaches you how to think.

 If you go into a deal with a win-win mindset, it almost always works out.

 Clever excuses don’t make anything better.

 Every business is someone’s irrational dedication.

 The most important element of success is perseverance.

 Always let people keep their dignity.

 The cost of making others happy is losing yourself.

 Do right for the company. Do right for society. You can’t prosper unless the community around you prospers.

 Believing in someone before they believe in themselves changes everything.

Learn more at: https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/outliers-ed-stack/

-----

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-----

Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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This episode is for informational purposes only.
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Ed Stack: Lessons from Dick’s Sporting Goods [Outliers]

Lulu Cheng Meservey is one of the sharpest minds in communications and strategy. She has helped some of the best leaders through their hardest moments.

We talk about why trust and conviction are contagious, how to win attention in a noisy world, and how to handle attacks without losing ground.
-----
About Lulu:
Having been CCO and EVP of Corporate Affairs at Activision Blizzard and VP of Comms at Substack, she is now the creator of Rostra, the only advisory firm focused on founder-led comms.
-----

Approximate Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction 

(08:34) The Importance Of The Hook 

(14:35) Why Do Governments And Large Corporations Communicate So Poorly? 

(21:50) How To Build A Cult 

(27:56) How Trust And Likeability Affect Your Messages 

(39:19) How To Respond To A Public Relations Attack 

(42:57) One Death Is A Tragedy, A Thousand Are A Statistic 

(47:34) The Importance Of Being First 

(55:22) Overcoming Being The Underdog 

(1:00:03) How To Play Offence In PR 

(1:05:36) 3 Things To Make A Difference In Your Comms / Storytelling 

(1:21:07) The Halo Effect 

(1:25:52) Practical Comms Advice For Everyday Work Interactions 

(1:46:17) What Is Success For You? 

-----
Thank you to the sponsors for this episode: 

Basecamp: Stop struggling, start making progress. Get somewhere with Basecamp. Sign up free at http://basecamp.com/knowledgeproject

reMarkable: Get your paper tablet at https://www.reMarkable.com today

.tech domains: Nothing says tech like being on .tech https://get.tech/

-----

Upgrade: Get a hand edited transcripts and ad free experiences along with my thoughts and reflections at the end of every conversation. Learn more @ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/membership⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Newsletter: The Brain Food newsletter delivers actionable insights and thoughtful ideas every Sunday. It takes 5 minutes to read, and it’s completely free. Learn more and sign up at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠fs.blog/newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠------Follow Shane ParrishX ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@ShaneAParrish⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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How To Build A Cult | Lulu Cheng Meservey

Fred Smith founded FedEx on an idea everyone told him would fail and built it into an $88 billion empire that changed how the world moves.

In this episode, we dive into how he built FedEx and the lessons he learned along the way. 

This story proves that impossible is just another word for opportunity.

-----

Timestamps:

(00:00) Introduction

(03:36) Part 1: The Boy Who Wouldn't Stay Down

(15:52) Part 2: The Impossible Company

(29:36) Part 3: The Empire Builder

(38:12) Epilogue: From Crisis to Legacy (1993–2025)

(40:55) Important Things That Didn’t Make It Into the Episode

(43:55) Lessons from Fred Smith

-----

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Fred Smith: The Story of FedEx [Outliers]

Doug Conant breaks down how putting his employees first made him an internationally renowned business leader atop both the Nabisco Foods Company and the Campbell Soup Company. On this episode Doug discusses why you can’t win in the marketplace if you haven’t won in the workplace, his first 100 days as CEO of Campbell Soup, adjusting to shifting consumer preferences, how to know when you have the right people and the wrong people, and so much more.
 
 Conant served as the President of Nabisco from 1999-2001 and then spent a decade as President and CEO of The Campbell Soup Company. In 2011 he founded ConantLeadership, a consulting company focused on championing leadership that works in the 21st century. He’s also the author of The Blueprint: 6 Practical Steps to Lift Your Leadership to New Heights.
 
 -- Go Premium: Members get early access, ad-free episodes, hand-edited transcripts, searchable transcripts, member-only episodes, and more. Sign up at: https://fs.blog/membership/
 
 Every Sunday our newsletter shares timeless insights and ideas that you can use at work and home. Add it to your inbox: https://fs.blog/newsletter/
 
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#118 Doug Conant: Leadership With Integrity

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