App Store

Google Play

Details page - Device banner - 894x1036

Step into an infinite world of stories

Listen and read

Strong Towns

Join Abby Newsham, Chuck Marohn and occasional surprise guests to talk in depth about one big story from the week in the Strong Towns conversation, right when you want it: now.

Upzoned

In this episode of Upzoned, host Abby Newsham is joined by Kevin Klinkenberg, an urban designer, planner and executive director of a place management organization. They discuss how a middle-class life — especially homeownership — has become increasingly difficult for younger generations to attain. They also cover the factors that contribute to this difficulty and possible responses.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

Transcript available on our site • .

 • 

“Is a Middle Class Life Still Attainable?” by Tom Owens, Aaron Renn Substack (December 2024).
 • 

 • 

Read more from Kevin Klinkenberg on Strong Towns or his Substack The Messy City.
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

Is Life More Difficult for Younger Generations?

In California, many major insurers have recently dropped homeowners in high risk areas from their plans, forcing them to seek alternate coverage with the state. However the state has nowhere near enough money to cover current property damage costs, a situation that will likely get worse as wildfires continue to burn.

In this episode of Upzoned, co-hosts Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn discuss the impact of natural disasters on the insurance industry, the feasibility of government-run insurance programs, and what this might mean for California in the long term.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

Support Southern California Wildfire Relief. (Thank you to Strong Towns Artesia for providing this resource!)
 • 

 • 

“California’s Insurance System Faces Crucial Test as Losses Mount” by Christopher Flavelle, The New York Times (January 2025).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Chuck Marohn (Twitter/X).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

How Homeowner’s Insurance May Change in the Wake of California Wildfires

In 2021, Massachusetts signed a law requiring communities that are served by the Massachusetts Bay Transit Authority (MBTA) to legalize multifamily housing development near MBTA transit stations. Recently, a state court ruled that the state has the authority to sue cities and towns that don’t comply.

In this episode of Upzoned, Abby and Chuck discuss whether that’s a good idea, the broader trend of states intervening in city zoning practices, and how the root issue is actually poor transportation investment practices.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“Court Ruling Paves the Way For State to Sue Towns With Exclusionary Zoning Laws” by Christian MilNeil, StreetsblogMASS (January 2025).
 • 

 • 

“Our Financial System Favors Large-Scale Development…but at What Cost?” with Coby Lefkowitz.
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Chuck Marohn (Twitter/X).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

Why Massachusetts Might Sue Its Cities Over Zoning Codes

In this episode, Abby is joined by Chicago aldermen Matt Martin and Andre Vasquez to discusses the Western Avenue corridor study, one of the most ambitious planning efforts Chicago has seen in decades. It includes widespread rezoning reform, and it also addresses affordable housing, economic vitality and transit efficiency. The aldermen share their approach to rezoning, emphasizing the importance of a community-first approach.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“Let’s fix Western Avenue and make Chicago stronger” by Aaron Feldman, Chicago Tribune (June 2024).
 • 

 • 

There are 6 easy code reforms that city officials can use to bring more housing to their communities. We will release a toolkit to help you implement these changes in February 2025. Get a sneak peek here and join our mailing list to be notified when this resource is available.
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

How To Reform Chicago Zoning: The Western Avenue Project

The U.S. senior housing market is poised to shift from a surplus to a shortage in the next five years, as the oldest baby boomers turn 80 by 2030. In this Upzoned episode, Abby is joined by Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Strong Towns’ director of Movement Building. They unpack the implications of this market shift and discuss what building more options for older adults could look like.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“Aging Boomers Are About to Rekindle the Senior-Housing Market” by Peter Grant, The Wall Street Journal (February 2025).
 • 

 • 

Read more:
 • 

 • 

“Seniors Have Large Suburban Houses To Sell. Does Anyone Want Them?” (Strong Towns).
 • 

 • 

“The Great Senior Short Sale or Why Policy Inertia Will Short Change Millions of America's Seniors” (Journal of Comparative Urban Law and Policy).
 • 

 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

How To Handle the Looming Shortage of Senior Housing

Residents of a neighborhood in Colorado are confronting a $434 million debt incurred by their community’s special taxing district, which was set up by developers to finance the neighborhood’s infrastructure. A group of neighbors are now organizing to take control of the district’s board and try to bring transparency to the financial situation.

In today’s episode of Upzoned, Abby is joined by Edward Erfurt, Strong Towns’ chief technical advisor. They discuss how using special taxing districts to fund developments is a common practice, how it leads to snowballing debt, and how difficult it is for residents to manage this kind of situation.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“The largest neighborhood of this Colorado city is $434M in debt. Neighbors are now seeking board control.” by Olivia Young, CBS News (February 2025).
 • 

 • 

This Thursday, February 27, Strong Towns will release a toolkit to help city officials welcome incremental housing development. Learn more here. Become a member to join the launch livestream with experts Alli Thurmond Quinlan (Incremental Development Alliance) and Eric Kronberg (Kronberg Urbanists + Architects).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

How a Popular Development Practice Backfires on Homeowners

Co-hosts Abby Newsham and Chuck Marohn discuss the challenges faced by Victoria, Prince Edward Island, a town in Canada that only has 139 full-time residents. In an attempt to attract new residents, the town has adopted its first five-year development plan.

Chuck and Abby talk about how very small towns like Victoria show the absurdities of the Suburban Experiment best — and feel its consequences most keenly. They explore what the future could look like for communities like this and emphasize the importance of embracing the things that make a specific town special instead of trying to copy suburban subdivisions.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“Population growth called 'critical' for the sustainability of Victoria, P.E.I.” by Sara Fraser, CBC News (February 2025).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Chuck Marohn (Substack).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

What Does the Future Look Like for Tiny Towns?

In this Upzoned episode, Abby is joined by Strong Towns Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt to discuss the emergence of food deserts in the United States. In the 1980s, the U.S. government stopped enforcing price discrimination laws, letting large supermarkets use their size to leverage better prices from suppliers. This led to the closure of many small, independent groceries and helped create today's food deserts.

Abby and Edward discuss the shift from grocery stores being neighborhood assets to regional destinations and how that extracts wealth from communities. Then they share bottom-up ways that everyday people can address these food shortages in their communities.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“The Great Grocery Squeeze: How a federal policy change in the 1980s created the modern food desert” by Stacy Mitchell, The Atlantic (December 2024).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

Can We Take Community Wealth Back From Walmart and Kroger?

President Trump has proposed the privatization of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, organizations that back the majority of mortgages in the U.S. and have been under a government conservatorship since the 2008 financial crisis. In this Upzoned episode, Chuck and Abby discuss the proposal and how it would affect the housing market.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“How Trump plans to get government out of the mortgage business” by Paige Sutherland and Meghna Chakrabarti, WBUR On Point (March 2025).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Chuck Marohn (Substack)
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

Will Privatizing Mortgages Fix the Housing Market?

As of the 2023-24 academic year, the University of California faces $9.1 billion in deferred maintenance, while California State University faces $8.3 billion. In today’s episode, Chuck and Abby explore how this problem arose, how it mirrors the challenges cities are facing, and what it'll take to manage this decline.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“Inside a $17 billion maintenance backlog plaguing California’s universities” by Victoria Mejicanos, Matthew Reagan and Mercy Sosa, CalMatters (April 2025).
 • 

 • 

Learn more about the Growth Ponzi Scheme and how to evaluate your own city’s financial position.
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Chuck Marohn (Substack)
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

California Universities Face a $17 Billion Growth Ponzi Scheme

In this episode of Upzoned, host Abby Newsham is joined by Andrew Ganahl, managing partner of a real estate development company that specializes in urban infill housing. They discuss a Washington Post article about townhouses, exploring the benefits of this style of development and Ganahl’s own experiences with building townhouses in Kansas City.

ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES

 • 

“The new American Dream should be a townhouse” by Amanda Shendruk and Heather Long, The Washington Post (October 2024).
 • 

 • 

Andrew Ganahl (AND Real Estate site).
 • 

 • 

Abby Newsham (X/Twitter).
 • 

 • 

Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom.
 •

The Goldilocks Option: Why Townhouses Might Be Just Right for Housing Development

Listen and read

Other podcasts you might like ...