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NHPR

Outside/In: Where curiosity and the natural world collide.

Look around, and you’ll find everything is connected to the natural world. At Outside/In, we explore that idea with boundless curiosity. We report from disaster zones, pickleball courts, and dog sled kennels, and talk about policy, pop culture, science, and everything in between. From the backcountry to your backyard, we tell stories that expand the boundaries of environmental journalism. 

Outside/In is a production of NHPR. Learn more at outsideinradio.org

Outside/In

Ever since a tornado tore through one of St. Louis, Missouri’s poorest neighborhoods, there are piles of bricks all over the place. 

It’s not just a debris problem. Bricks in St. Louis have a long and complicated history here – the darling of many historic preservationists and a good source of profit to just as many demolition crews. 

Producer Marina Henke spent a week in North City, tagging along with a brick layer who’s racing against the clock to build back homes. Can North City keep its bricks? Should they even try?

Featuring Natalie Hughes, RJ Koscielniak, and Rasheen Aldridge.

Produced by Marina Henke. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

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Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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LINKS

The STL Vacancy Collaborative runs a Demolition Dashboard, showing all approved and completed demolitions in St. Louis City. 

The 2011 documentary Brick By Chance and Fortune provides a more in-depth look at brick’s history in St. Louis, including its architectural variance. 

For a comprehensive social and economic history of St. Louis check out Walter Johnson’s The Broken Heart of America.

The apocryphal headline and its report of a struggling St. Louis still exists in the New York Times’ archives: In St. Louis Even the Old Bricks Are Leaving Town. 

In 2017, the podcast 99% Invisible took a closer look at St. Louis brick theft.

 
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The Brick Lady of St. Louis

What do pastries have to do with environmental justice? Cat butts with the climate crisis? And what US president ate a half-chewed piece of salmon leftover from a bear on reality TV?

Grab a pencil (and maybe a pint?) and get ready for the inaugural Outside/In trivia episode we’re calling “Natural Selection.” We’ve got a game called “Guess That Animal!” We’re testing our panel’s knowledge on the environment in movies and music. And, maybe, we’ll learn a thing or two along the way about environmental policy, past and present.

Produced by Felix Poon. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

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Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 
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O/I Trivia: Natural Selection

When designer Matt Leacock decided to make a board game about climate action, he knew he wanted to make it – first and foremost – fun to play. “If we sold anything as an educational game… people would run screaming and running for the hills,” he told us. 

But can simulating the climate crisis really make for a good Friday night with your friends? What are the limits to gamifying social issues as complex as global warming?

In this episode, we speak with Matt about what it took to design an entertaining game about one of the most challenging topics of our time, and enlist a few friends to playtest his game: “Daybreak.” 

Featuring Matt Leacock, with appearances from NHPR’s Marina Henke, Nick Capodice and Hannah McCarthy. This episode was produced by Taylor Quimby. For a full list of credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org

 

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To share your questions and feedback with Outside/In, call the show’s hotline and leave us a voicemail. The number is 1-844-GO-OTTER. No question is too serious or too silly.

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Subscribe to our newsletter (it’s free!).

Follow Outside/In on Instagram and BlueSky, or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 

LINKS

Read game designer Matt Leacock’s 2020 NYT opinion piece about his game, Pandemic, and what it says about social cooperation during an actual pandemic. 

One of Daybreak’s inspirations was “The 100% Solution” by Solomon Goldstein-Rose. Here’s his TED Talk about building a new global electricity system. 

For more insight into how Daybreak was made, check out Matt and co-designer Matteo Menapace’s design diaries. 

A climate scientist/board gamer’s break down of the science and gameplay of Daybreak

Listen to Civics 101’s great episode on civics-centered board games. 

 
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How to solve the climate crisis in 60-90 minutes

For humans, roads epitomize freedom. For wildlife, it’s a different story: a million animals are killed by cars every day in the US alone. How did our infrastructure turn so deadly? And what are people trying to do about it?

In this episode, we look at how two very different species are impacted by roads. Along the way, we visit a turtle rescue clinic, and hear about a celebrity cougar that was trapped in the Hollywood Hills.

This episode was first produced in 2023.

Right now, the Trump administration is planning to rescind the Roadless Rule – a regulation that restricts the building of new roads in nearly 60 million acres of US forests. Conservationists warn that this will fragment forests and threaten endangered species. A public comment period on the plan is open until September 19th.

Featuring Ben Goldfarb, Alexxia Bell, Natasha Nowick, and Michaela Conder.

For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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LINKS

September 19, 2025 is the deadline to submit a comment about the potential effects of rescinding the Roadless Rule.

Check out Crossings: How Road Ecology is Shaping the Future of Our Planet, by Ben Goldfarb.

Read more about The Turtle Rescue League in Of Time and Turtles: Mending the World, Shell by Shattered Shell, by Sy Montgomery.

 
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Why is there so much roadkill?

In the early 1900s, people didn’t trust refrigerated food. Fruits and vegetables, cuts of meat… these things are supposed to decay, right? As Nicola Twilley writes, “What kind of unnatural technology could deliver a two-year old chicken carcass that still looked as though it was slaughtered yesterday?”

But just a few decades later, Americans have done a full one-eighty. Livestock can be slaughtered thousands of miles away, and taste just as good (or better) by the time it hits your plate. Apples can be stored for over a year without any noticeable change. A network called the “cold-chain” criss-crosses the country, and at home our refrigerators are fooling us into thinking we waste less food than we actually do. 

Today, refrigeration has reshaped what we eat, how we cook it, and even warped our very definition of what is and isn’t “fresh.” 

Featuring Nicola Twilley.

For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

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Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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LINKS

You can find Nicola’s new book “Frostbite: How Refrigeration Changed Our Food, Our Planet and Ourselves,” at your local bookstore or online.

 
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The cold truth about refrigeration

We’re catching some air this week, and talking things with wings! 

Quandaries range from the practical (how do different animal and insect wings differ?) to the ethereal (this includes dragons). Here’s the questions we’ll be answering…

What makes wings different?How have wings in nature inspired human flight? Did we ever solve the colony collapse problem with bees?Why do so many cultures have dragon myths?
Featuring Jonathan Rader, Tim Burbery, Lauren Ponisio, and Andrew Howley. 

For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

For our next Outside/Inbox roundup, we’re looking for questions about healing! We’re casting a wide net here: homeopathy, neuroplasticity, chronic disease, plant resiliency. Send us your questions by recording yourself on a voice memo, and emailing that to us at outsidein@nhpr.org. Or you can call our hotline: 844-GO-OTTER.

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Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

The video of the sandhill crane landing lives on TikTok. 

Here’s that video of an albatross walking on land after years at sea. 

Timothy Burbery is the author of Geomythology: How Common Stories Reflect Earth Events.

The hypothesis connecting the mythical griffin and Protoceratops fossils was popularized by Adrienne Mayor, author of The First Fossil Hunters: Dinosaurs, Mammoths, and Myth in Greek and Roman Times.

Here's a paper critiquing Mayor's interpretations, "Did the horned dinosaur Protoceratops inspire the griffin?"

A USGS volcanologist on what geologists missed for so long in the stories of Pele, from indigenous Hawaiian oral tradition.

 
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All Wings Considered

Shipwrecks captivate our imagination, and are the subject of many books, academic papers, and movies—from the world-famous Titanic, to sunken World War II warships, to ancient fishing canoes. Some describe them as time capsules of our maritime history, waiting to be discovered and opened.

But there’s a group of people who are drawn to shipwrecks for very different reasons, and it sometimes leads to the demise of the wrecks themselves: fishermen.

In this episode, why archaeologists and fishermen have sometimes been at odds over shipwrecks, and the federal government program that’s bringing them together under one common cause.

Featuring Ben Roberts, Mike Bailey, Tom Hill, Calvin Meyers, and Ben Haskell.

Produced by Felix Poon. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

 

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

 

LINKS

Learn more about the many known shipwrecks of Stellwagen Bank, including the Portland, known as “New England’s Titanic.”

Check out some of the other research projects at Stellwagen Bank

 on topics as varied as whales, sand lances, and seabirds.

 
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Saving the shipwrecks of Stellwagen Bank

GPS is essential these days. We use it for everything, from a hunter figuring out where the heck they are in the backcountry, to a delivery truck finding a grocery store, to keeping clocks in sync.

But our reliance on GPS may also be changing our brains. Old school navigation strengthens the hippocampus, and multiple studies suggest that our new reliance on satellite navigation may put us at higher risk for conditions like dementia.

In this episode (first released in 2024), we map out how GPS took over our world—from Sputnik’s Doppler effect to the airplane crash that led to its widespread adoption—and share everyday stories of getting lost and found again.

Featuring Dana Goward, M.R. O’Connor, Christina Phillips, Michelle Liu, Julia Furukawa, and Taylor Quimby.

Produced by Nate Hegyi. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org. 

LINKS

In 2023, Google Maps rerouted dozens of drivers in Los Angeles down a dirt road to the middle of nowhere to avoid a dust storm. 

Maura O’Connor traveled from rural Alaska to the Australian bush to better understand how people navigate without GPS—and sometimes even maps. 

Here’s the peer-reviewed study, published in the journal Nature, that found that young people who relied on GPS for daily driving had poorer spatial memories. 

Another study out of Japan found that people who use smartphone apps like Google Maps to get around had a tougher time retracing their steps or remembering how they got to a place compared to people who use paper maps or landmarks.

 
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Your brain on GPS

Fungi used to be considered plants. Bad plants. Carl Linnaeus even referred to them as “the poorest peasants” of the vegetable class. This reputation stuck, and fungi were considered a nuisance in the Western world well into the 20th century.

Patricia Ononiwu Kaishian is trying to rewrite that narrative. Her new book, Forest Euphoria: The Abounding Queerness of Nature catalogs fungi that sprout from the shells of beetles, morph with their sexual partners into one being and exhibit as many as 23,000 mating types. 

Patty believes that fungi’s ability to defy our cut and dry assumptions about the natural world is actually their superpower. All it takes is to first accept that they’re queer as heck. 

Featuring Patricia Ononiwu Kaishian. 

Produced by Marina Henke. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

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You can find Patty’s new book Forest Euphoria at your local bookstore or online. 

Local to Albany? Visit the fungi exhibit that Marina toured at the New York State Museum: Outcasts: Mary Banning’s World of Mushrooms.

Patty has had the chance to name several new species of fungi. In 2021 she published an article documenting those species, with some pretty great photos of laboulbeniales (those are the fungi that grow from arthropod shells). 

Check out C. L. Porter’s 1969 address to the Indiana Academy of Sciences where he critiques fellow mycologists for being “meek.” It’s brutal.

One of Patty’s favorite films is Microcosmos, a 1996 French documentary that investigates the daily interactions of insects. It’s not direct mushroom content per se, but it is beautiful.

 
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Taxonomy's 200-Year Mistake

Last spring, a curious listener called with an unusual question about coyote urine. Is it – as advertised by companies who sell it – an effective, all natural pest deterrent? And more importantly: “Who are the coyotes that are providing this urine?”

Since then, producer Taylor Quimby has been trying to find out… and with literal gallons of the stuff available online, he discovered the answers aren’t pretty. 

Today on Outside/In, we peek inside the unregulated Pandora’s box of urine farming. Does it work? Is it ethical? And is anybody willing to actually talk about it? 

Featuring Jeannie Bartlett, Caroline Long, Ed Brookmyer, Laura Koivula. 

Produced by Taylor Quimby. For full credits and transcript, visit outsideinradio.org.

SUPPORT

Outside/In is made possible with listener support. Click here to become a sustaining member of Outside/In. 

Follow Outside/In on Instagram or join our private discussion group on Facebook.

LINKS

This 1998 study assessed coyote urine as a deterrent for deer, and found (with some caveats) a 15-24% reduction in deer browsing after exposure to the urine. 

However, coyote urine had no measurable effect on the deer browsing of yew saplings in this more recent study. 

Websites for some coyote urine brands, like PredatorPee.com and Shake-away animal repellents, claim that they source urine from regulated farms that treat animals humanely, but did not provide more information when asked. 

This article from Cleveland.com

 details the conditions at The Grand River Fur Exchange, a fur and urine farm where hundreds of animals were found in poor condition after the owner’s death. 

 
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People are buying coyote urine. Where does it come from?

In the late 1950s, engineer Herb Ueda Sr. traveled to a remote Arctic military base. His mission? To drill through nearly a mile of ice, and extract the world’s first complete ice core.

To finish the job, he and his team would endure sub-zero weather, toxic chemicals, and life inside a military base… which was slowly being crushed by the glacier from which it was carved. 

In this episode (first released in 2023) Daniel Ackerman takes us inside Camp Century, and explains how a foundational moment in climate science was inextricably linked with the United State's military interest in Greenland.

Featuring Curt La Bombard, Julie Brigham-Grette, Herb Ueda Jr., Don Garfield, and Aleqa Hammond.

Produced by Daniel Ackerman. For a full list of credits and transcript, go to outsidinradio.org. 

 
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The Cold War Ice Core of Greenland

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