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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

We’ve got the first of a two-part series on the systems that run the world: I’m talking today with Bart Butler, the CTO of Proton, the company that makes private and secure productivity software. 

There’s a lot of big Decoder themes in this one. That includes how Proton has structured its ownership and architected its products to align its incentives with protecting users. At the same time, Proton faces new challenges and pressures, both at home in Switzerland and from the EU and US government that are putting its values to the test. 

Links: 

 Proton now offers an entire bundle of office services | The Verge

 Proton Mail helped FBI unmask anonymous ‘Stop Cop City’ protester | 404Media

 Proton says it will leave Switzerland if this controversial law Is passed | Vice

 Age verification is a mess but we’re doing it anyway | The Verge

 Let’s build a children’s public internet | The Verge

 Let me see some ID: age verification is spreading across the internet | The Verge

 Why Chat Control 1.0 is the EU's most Orwellian law yet | Euronews

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Proton’s CTO: No company is going to jail for you

Nvidia is obviously in the news constantly because of the AI boom — but it's also a major supplier to the entire auto industry As head of Nvidia's automotive division, Xinzhou Wu has a front-row seat to all the challenges EVs and autonomous vehicles are facing, especially in the US.

And of course, you can’t talk about electric cars or vehicle autonomy in the US without talking about Elon Musk and Tesla. So I asked Xinzhou pretty directly if Tesla full self driving can actually do what Elon claims it will be able to do without using LiDAR. You tell me if you think his answer holds up.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠. 

Links: 

 Nvidia’s head of autonomous driving opens up about his plans | The Verge

 Hyundai, Nissan, BYD, and Geely Join Nvidia’s Level 4 | MotorTrend

 Nvidia, auto suppliers roll out partnerships to rekindle self-driving | Reuters

 Meet Alpamayo, Nvidia’s new AI model for autonomous cars | Forbes

 I tested Nvidia’s FSD competitor — Tesla should be worried | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yes, even Nvidia's head of automotive is fighting for compute

My guest today is Peter Kafka, chief correspondent at Business Insider and host of Channels, a podcast about the media industry. And it’s a big week for the media industry — Comcast just announced that it’s splitting itself up, into the Comcast broadband company and the NBCUniversal entertainment company.

This dream, that you can combine distribution with big splashy entertainment properties, has failed time and again. But Comcast tried the content plus pipes strategy for longer than most. So Peter and I discussed what happened in the media and broadband industries over the last 15 years, and what might happen next. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Comcast is cutting NBCUniversal loose | Business Insider

 Comcast’s split could make or break Peacock | The Verge

 Comcast and NBCUniversal will go it alone. But for how long? | NYT

 Comcast split shows bigger is no longer better | Deadline

 A cable scion’s hardest deal yet: breaking up his family’s company | WSJ

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why did Comcast ever buy NBC?

Today I’m talking with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky, who run the Creators Division at United Talent Agency. UTA is an enormous talent agency, and Ali and Raina's creators division represents some of the biggest creators and influencers in the world.

So I really wanted to know how Raina and Ali identify up-and-coming talent, how they work with that talent to build durable businesses, and what the machinations of being a top creator actually look like in practice.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

 The power brokers behind the $250B influencer economy | Wall Street Journal

 The Influencer Cliff | Carmen Vicente (TikTok)

 UTA Unveils Upscale Office for Creators | The Hollywood Reporter

 YouTube Stars Breach Hollywood’s Most Gilded Gate | New York Times

 CAA, TPG form holding company to acquire creator-led businesses | Variety

 How creator talent agencies are evolving into multi-platform operators | Digiday

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Inside the big business of the creator economy, with Ali Berman and Raina Penchansky

We’ve got a special Decoder today. I had the chance to talk with Amy Lanzi, the CEO of Digitas North America, in front of a live audience at the Uber villa at the Cannes Lions advertising festival in the south of France.

There’s a lot in this one on AI, the creator economy, and the future of marketing – like I said, Amy is as sharp as they come, and I really enjoy talking to her about how the money really works.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

 The Influencer Cliff | Carmen Vicente (TikTok)

 The Wrong Promises | Publicis Groupe (YouTube)

 You can just tell the Instagram algorithm what you want now | The Verge

 How brands and creators are fighting for your attention and money | Decoder (2025)

 How influencers are changing advertising, with Digitas’ Amy Lanzi | Decoder (2024)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The CMO is a dying role, says Digitas' Amy Lanzi

It’s time for our annual Fourth of July grill episode here at Decoder, which is when we invite the CEOs of outdoor cooking companies onto the show to explain just how their businesses kind of look like every other business. And this is a very special edition. 

Today we’re talking to Roger Dahle, the CEO of Weber Blackstone, a full circle moment for Decoder. Roger was our first-ever grill CEO on the show back when he was the CEO of just Blackstone. Five years later, Roger now runs one of his biggest competitors, after Blackstone announced a merger with Weber in 2024. So we talked about that process, and how Roger is managing the integration of these two grilling giants. 

Links: 

 ﻿Weber and Blackstone to combine | The Verge

 How Blackstone became the darling of grill TikTok | Decoder (2021)

 How arson led to a culture reboot at Traeger, with CEO Jeremy Andrus | Decoder (2022)

 Big Green Egg CEO Dan Gertsacov on growing kamado cooking | Decoder (2024)

 How SharkNinja took over the home | Decoder (2025)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Eileen Felix. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

He changed outdoor cooking forever — then took over Weber

Hey everyone, Nilay here. You might remember I took a break from Decoder last year — we had a baby, so I took some leave. In my place, we had an excellent slate of guest hosts, and we’ve been working hard to bring you those episodes in full video since we launched our official Decoder YouTube channel.

So today, we’re featuring a really great interview conducted by my very good friend Joanna Stern, now the founder and CEO of New Things, and Ford CEO Jim Farley. Joanna pulled some exclusive news out of Jim at the time, including some telling quotes on Trump’s tariff policy, on Ford competing with Chinese EVs, and the company's stance on Apple CarPlay. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Ford CEO Jim Farley on China, tariffs, and the quest for a $30,000 EV | Decoder

 Joanna Stern is not a robot, but she lived with them | Decoder

 Ford's Jim Farley: 'I totally would’ve done it differently.’ | The Verge

 Ford pulls the plug on the all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck | NPR

 Inside the lab where Ford is trying to crack the code on cheap EVs | The Verge

 Ford is fighting against physics to build affordable EVs | The Verge

 Ford reveals breakthrough process for lower priced EVs | The Verge

 Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 | Decoder (2021)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

The show is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. The video version of this episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rewind: CEO Jim Farley on Ford's EV gamble

A lot has changed on the internet, in the creator landscape, and at Patreon itself since CEO Jack Conte was last on the show in 2021. AI and platform shifts have stolen creator content and decimated artists' reach and revenue streams, and Patreon has made some pretty existential changes to the way it works in response. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

 My thoughts on AI | Patreon

 I tried to prove I’m not AI | Howtown

 Patreon: Apple’s 30% tax is the price of staying in the App Store | The Verge

 Welcome to hell, Elon (2022) | The Verge

 Reality is losing the deepfake war | Decoder

 Elon Musk is steamrolling Wall Street to become a trillionaire | Decoder

 Incorruptible | Simon & Schuster

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Can Patreon fight fire with social media fire?

My guest today is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter for The Verge. Often when Hayden comes on the show, it’s because something has gone wrong in the world of AI. Last weekend, that something was a pretty intense mix of Anthropic, the Trump administration, and Anthropic’s new AI model, Fable 5. 

Hayden actually just published a fantastic play-by-play on The Verge about how the Fable ban went down, and the scramble through the weekend from both sides to figure out what exactly happened and how it might get resolved. So I wanted her to come on and just walk me through the timeline and what it all means.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠.

Links: 

 Inside the fight over Claude Mythos 5 | ⁠The Verge⁠

 Anthropic cuts off Fable 5 and Mythos 5 access following government order | ⁠The Verge⁠

 Anthropic got hit by export rules nobody understands | ⁠The Verge⁠

 Anthropic’s safety superpower | ⁠Stratechery⁠

 "They screwed us": Personality clashes sent Anthropic's models offline | ⁠Axios⁠

 Anthropic’s call for AI nonproliferation | ⁠New York Times⁠

 Trump signs exec order to review AI models before release | ⁠The Verge⁠

 New Anthropic model finds security problems ‘in every major OS, browser’ | ⁠The Verge⁠

Subscribe to The Verge⁠ to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Who decides when AI is too dangerous?

Today, I’m talking with Slydio CEO Adam Bry, who runs the leading US maker of autonomous drones. We covered a lot in this conversation, including Skydio’s police and government work at a time when military use of AI is more controversial than ever and competing with Chinese drones against the backdrop of the Trump’s administration’s DJI ban.

There’s a lot in this one – maybe more than anything, it was refreshing to hear Adam talk about using AI to bring even more people to work at Skydio as the company expands. I also got to fly a drone, which ruled.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

 Flying a semi-autonomous industrial drone | Decoder

 Sorry kid, drones are for war now | The Verge

 The FCC’s foreign drone ban is here | The Verge

 Skydio is pivoting to enterprise — its consumer drones are dead | The Verge

 Skydio commits $3.5B to expand US manufacturing | Skydio

 A US drone maker tries to take back the country’s skies | Bloomberg

 DEA looks to add Skydio, Parrot drones to its arsenal | FedScoop

 The future of border security isn’t at the border at all | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Skydio CEO argues more drones will make us safer

Congressman Ro Khanna talks with Recode's Kara Swisher and Tony Romm about why the people who have benefitted most from technology have a civic duty to give back to their country. Rep. Khanna's district, CA-17, covers several major Silicon Valley companies, including Apple, Intel, Yahoo and eBay, and he calls on the people creating "wealth and success" to help others succeed, including their own workers. Khanna argues that net neutrality is a major issue in need of more attention, and calls FCC chairman Ajit Pai "one of the worst picks possible in government" and a mouthpiece for the telecom industry. He also discusses immigration reform, the transition to "21st century jobs" and why President Trump's tweets are so effective.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode Decode: Rep. Ro Khanna

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