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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Grok, the chatbot made by Elon Musk’s xAI, is able to make all manner of AI-generated images on demand, including non-consensual intimate images of women and minors. It's the kind of "controversy" that would have completely sunk a platform five or 10 years ago, but now it seems clear that Elon wants Grok to be able to do this.

A lot of people feel like someone should be able to do something about a one-click harassment machine like this. But who has that power, and what they can do with it, is a deeply complicated question,tied up in the thorny mess of history that is content moderation and the legal precedents that underpin it. So I invited Riana Pfefferkorn, from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence, to come talk me through it.

Links: 

 Grok’s gross AI deepfakes problem | The Verge

 Grok is undressing children — can the law stop it? | The Verge

 Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai are cowards | The Verge

 Senate passes a bill to let nonconsensual deepfake victims sue | The Verge

 EU looks to ban nudification apps following Grok outrage | Politico

 Grok flooded X with millions of sexualized images | The New York Times

 The Supreme Court just upended internet law | The Verge

 Mother of Elon Musk’s son sues xAI over sexual deepfake images | AP

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why nobody's stopping Grok

We’re back to start the year with a very special live interview with Razer CEO Min-Liang Tan, which we taped in front of a terrific audience at Brooklyn Bowl in Las Vegas during CES. At this year’s show, Razer made headlines for something it calls Project Ava, an AI companion that has a physical presence in the real world, as an anime hologram that sits in a jar on your desk. It’s powered by, you guessed it, Elon Musk’s Grok. 

There are a whole lot of choices bundled up in all of that, as well as Razer’s decision to go all-in on AI at a moment when the gaming community is outright rejecting it. So Min and I really got into it. I think you’ll have a lot to think about with this one. 

Links: 

 Razer is making an AI anime waifu hologram for your desk | The Verge

 Razer thinks you’d rather have AI headphones instead of glasses | The Verge

 Baldur’s Gate 3 studio says it won’t use AI for concept art or writing | The Verge

 In 2025, AI became a lightning rod for gamers and devs | The Verge

 Razer plans $600M push to capture 'untapped' AI gaming demand | Bloomberg

 Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder

 Lawsuits blame ChatGPT for suicides and harmful delusions | NYT

 Inside three longterm relationships with AI chatbots | NYT

 Torment Nexus | Know Your Meme

 The future of gaming is AI | Razer (Instagram)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Razer CEO on AI in game dev, Grok, and anime waifus

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. We’re settling back in here after the winter break and CES, and we’ll have new episodes for you starting next Monday. In the meantime, we wanted to highlight one of our favorites from last year: an interview with journalist and author Megan Greenwell about her book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream.

My conversation with Megan last year was extremely illuminating as to why private equity does what it does to industries like healthcare, media and real estate — and just how deeply it's affecting the everyday lives of Americans everywhere. It's a really great conversation that feels just as timely today as it did last summer. Enjoy. 

Links: 

 Bad Company | HarperCollins

 How private equity kills companies and communities | Decoder

 Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder

 Private equity makes its first college sports play | Axios

 Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT

 I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT

 Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace

 The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox

 Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic

 The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rewind: How private equity kills companies and communities

We’ve got something special for you today. It’s my friend Hank Green, longtime YouTuber, science educator, and viral TikTok star, interviewing Dropout CEO Sam Reich. 

Hank did this episode as a guest host over the summer, and it’s a fan favorite, bringing together two internet personalities that’ve known each other for a very long time and who have a lot of inside knowledge about how the internet, Hollywood, and entertainment all intertwine. 

Links: 

 Dropout’s Sam Reich on business, comedy, and keeping the internet weird | Decoder

 How Dropout broke through in 2025 | AV Club

 Dropout CEO on launching ‘Superfan’ tier, crossing 1M subscribers | Variety

 How CollegeHumor reinvented itself for the new internet age | People

 CollegeHumor shaped online comedy. What went wrong? [2020] | Wired

 ‘I believe in this enough to try to do it myself’ [2020] | Digiday

 Jacob Wysocki needed a minute to process that Game Changer | Vulture

 
Game Changer smartly weaponizes its online following | Mashable

 Vimeo CEO Philip Moyer is betting on the human touch | Decoder

 Vimeo to be acquired by Bending Spoons for $1.38B | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dropout CEO Sam Reich on the business of subscription comedy

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. Decoder is on our holiday break. We’ve got a lot of fun stuff coming up in the New Year, though, including a special Decoder Live at CES. Stay tuned for more details, including how to RSVP for free tickets.

In the meantime, we’ve got a great episode of the podcast Channels, featuring two of the best media reporters in the business. Host Peter Kafka sat down with Bloomberg’s Lucas Shaw to talk about the bidding war between Paramount SkyDance and Netflix over Warner Bros. Discovery. It’s the biggest story in entertainment right now, and this episode breaks down everything you need to know about the contentious acquisition. 

Links: 

 "Neither Side Is Used to Losing”: Lucas Shaw on the battle for Warner Bros. | Channels

 Five things we’re getting wrong about Warner Bros.′ Netflix deal | Bloomberg

 Warner Bros.’ bidders brace for a fight that will last months | Bloomberg

 WBD wants its shareholders to reject Paramount’s latest offer | The Verge

 There are no good outcomes for the Warner Bros. sale | The Verge

 Netflix is “100% committed” to releasing WB films in theaters | The Verge

 Netflix is buying Warner Bros. for $83 billion | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What’s next for Netflix and Paramount in the Warner Bros. battle

Hey everyone! Decoder senior producers Kate Cox and Nick Statt here. We’ve had a big year, including nearly 100 episodes, a new YouTube channel, an ad-free podcast feed, and a slate of great guest hosts while Nilay was on parental leave. It’s been a lot!

We’ve also had a lot of great questions and comments this year from you, our audience. So we pulled together all the feedback we’ve received on topics like CarPlay, Monday episode guest suggestions, and — of course — AI. And then we turned the tables on Nilay to ask him his thoughts on the past 12 months: What we liked, what we want to improve, and how he’s making decisions for Decoder in the new year. 

Links: 

 Answering your biggest Decoder questions, 2024 edition | Decoder

 The DoorDash Problem | Decoder

 How decision making changes when AI answers are cheap and (too) easy | Decoder

 Why GM will give you Gemini — but not CarPlay | Decoder

 Rivian CEO: ‘We’re really convicted’ about skipping CarPlay | Decoder

 How SharkNinja took over the home, with CEO Mark Barrocas | Decoder

 Why Tubi CEO Anjali Sud thinks free TV can win again | Decoder

 Disney accuses Google of copyright infringement following OpenAI deal | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

"All chaos and panic": Nilay answers your burning Decoder questions

Stack Overflow CEO Prashanth Chandrasekar was last on the show in 2022 — just one month before ChatGPT launched and upended literally everything for Stack Overflow in a deeply existential way. 

He called a company emergency, reallocated about 10 percent of the staff to figure out solutions to the ChatGPT problem, and made some pretty huge decisions about structure and organization to navigate that change — all of it pure Decoder bait.

Links: 

 2025 Developer Survey | Stack Overflow

 The people who make your apps go to Stack Overflow for answers | Decoder

 OpenAI, Stack Overflow partner to bring technical knowledge to ChatGPT | The Verge

 Stack Overflow feeds programmers’ answers to AI whether they like it or not | The Verge

 Stack Overflow cuts 28 percent of its staff | TechCrunch

 AI-generated answers temporarily banned on Stack Overflow | The Verge

 Stack Overflow’s strike is over, but problems persist | Jon Ericson

 A new era of Stack Overflow | Stack Overflow

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Stack Overflow users don't trust AI. They're using it anyway

Massachusetts Sen. Ed Markey and I agree it seems like democracy is on the line right now, especially around the First Amendment and the increasing pressure the Trump administration — especially FCC chair Brendan Carr — is putting on free speech. I also had a lot of questions for Sen. Markey about the supposed TikTok ban, which no one seems to know anything about, and all the other problems we’re facing in 2025.

Links: 

 Even the lawmakers behind the TikTok ban have no idea what’s going on | The Verge

 Carr’s FCC is an anti-consumer, rights-trampling harassment machine | The Verge

 The FCC is a weapon in Trump’s war on free speech | Decoder

 Here’s the Trump EO that would ban state AI laws | The Verge

 Silicon Valley is rallying behind a guy who sucks | The Verge

 Silicon Valley’s man in the White House is benefiting himself and his friends | The New York Times

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sen. Ed Markey wants media companies to fight for the First Amendment

Today, I’m talking with Willem Avé, who’s the head of product at Square. You know Square — it was started by billionaire Jack Dorsey of Twitter fame more than 15 years ago, and it got big on the back of that little magnetic reader that once plugged into the headphone jack of the iPhone and let small businesses accept credit cards.

Nowadays, of course, Square is more than a credit card reader, and sadly, the headphone jack is ancient history. The company itself is now part of parent organization called Block, which is made up of a very interesting mix of financial services like Afterpay, Cash App, and, yes, the streaming music service Tidal. So Willem and I really got into where Square is headed next with AI and automation, why he’s excited about crypto and Bitcoin specifically, and even what it means that the US is discontinuing the penny. 

Links: 

 Square’s public roadmap | Square

 Jack Dorsey is reorganizing the entirety of Block | Fortune

 How Block turned Square into a financial services giant | Fast Company

 Block to roll out bitcoin payments on Square | Square

 Square buys $170 million worth of bitcoin | CNBC

 Square, Jack Dorsey’s payments company, changes its name to Block | NYT

 The penny dies at 232 | NYT

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Square's product chief on the death of the penny and the future of money

Today, I’m talking with Verge senior AI reporter Hayden Field about some of the people responsible for studying AI and deciding in what ways it might… well, ruin the world. Those folks work at Anthropic as part of a group called the societal impacts team, which Hayden just spent time with for a profile she published this week on The Verge. 

The team is just nine people out of more than 2,000 who work at Anthropic, and their only job, as the team members themselves say, is to investigate and publish quote "inconvenient truths” about AI. That of course brings up a whole host of problems, the most important of which is whether this team can remain independent, or even exist at all, as it publicizes findings about Anthropic's own products that might be unflattering or even politically fraught. 

Links: 

 It’s their job to keep AI from destroying everything | The Verge

 Anthropic details how it measures Claude’s wokeness | The Verge

 White House orders tech companies to make AI bigoted again | The Verge

 Chaos and lies: Why Sam Altman was booted from OpenAI | The Verge

 How Elon Musk Is remaking Grok in his image | NYT

 Anthropic tries to defuse White House backlash | Axios 

 New AI battle: White House vs. Anthropic | Axios

 Anthropic will pursue gulf state investments after all | Wired

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The tiny team trying to keep AI from destroying everything

Robert Jackson, one of the five commissioners on the Securities and Exchange Commission, talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about how the SEC works and the problem with perpetual dual-class stock at companies like WeWork, Facebook, and Google. Jackson also explains why he opposes two proposed rule changes that would make it harder for activists to challenge a CEO's power, why the NYSE and Nasdaq are not willing to be part of the solution, and how new legislation could fix the dual class dilemma. Plus: Why Jackson is not happy that the SEC settled with Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
Read a full transcript of this interview here.
Featuring:
Robert Jackson, commissioner, US Securities and Exchange Commission
Hosts:
Kara Swisher (@karaswisher), Recode co-founder and editor-at-large
More to explore:
Subscribe for free to Reset, Recode's new podcast that explores why — and how — tech is changing everything.
About Recode by Vox:
Recode by Vox helps you understand how tech is changing the world — and changing us.
Follow Us:
Newsletter: Recode Daily
Twitter: @Recode and @voxdotcom
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Recode Decode: SEC Commissioner Robert Jackson

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