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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. I’m back from parental leave, and I’m really excited to jump back into Decoder. Today’s episode is a special one: I’m talking to Zocdoc CEO Oliver Kharraz, and we chatted live on stage at the TechFutures conference in New York City. 

You’re almost certainly familiar with ZocDoc — it’s a platform that helps people find and book appointments with doctors. It’s a classic of the early app economy. The big difference is that Zocdoc plugs into the U.S. healthcare system, which is of course a giant mess, and that means Zocdoc has a big moat. So we talked about competition, navigating the US healthcare system, and, of course, what AI is doing to medicine. 

Read the full transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 "Superhuman" AI could transform medicine, Zocdoc CEO says | Axios

 How AI is changing your doctors appointments | Fast Company

 This Strategy ‘Nearly Killed’ Zocdoc. | Inc.

 Zocdoc Turns 18 | Oliver Kharraz / LinkedIn

 Meet Zo, the AI Phone Assistant for healthcare | Zocdoc

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Zocdoc CEO: "Dr. Google is going to be replaced by Dr. AI"

This is Jake Kastrenakes, executive editor at The Verge. I’m filling in for Nilay here while he settles back into full-time hosting duties. We’ve got a very good episode for you today. My guest is Verge transportation editor Andy Hawkins, and we’re talking about the federal EV tax credit. 

The tax credit expired at the end of September, and there are a lot of questions about what happens to the auto industry after its demise. This is a really hard, complicated set of problems, with a lot of moving parts, so I was really excited to have Andy on the show to break down all of these components and give us a clearer picture about what’s coming next. 

Links: 

 The EV tax credit is dead — here’s what happens next | The Verge

 GM takes a $1.6 billion hit on EVs | The Verge

 Ford CEO Jim Farley on China, tariffs, and affordable EV | The Verge

 Ford lost $5 billion on EVs in 2024, teases new models | The Verge

 EV makers fill tax-credit void with costly discounts | Automotive News

 So much for Ford and GM’s scheme to extend the EV tax credit | The Verge

 Stellantis replaces EV tax credit with its own discount | Automotive News

 Tesla sales picking up thanks to expiring tax credit | The Verge

 California Reverses Pledge To Revive EV Tax Credit | SF Chronicle

 Global EV sales growth slows to 15% in August, research firm says | Reuters

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The EV tax credit is dead. What now?

If you're a paid subscriber to the Verge, there's great news: you can now listen to Decoder, Version History, and The Vergecast completely ad-free. Just head to your Account Settings page to opt-in and start listening without ads. Not a member of The Verge yet? No worries! You can sign up at theverge.com/subscribe to get ad-free podcasts, plus other perks like exclusive newsletters and unlimited access to everything we publish.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Announcing an ad-free Decoder feed for Verge subscribers

This is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter at The Verge and your Thursday episode guest host. It’s been a very big news week in AI, and a lot of it had to do with OpenAI, its DevDay in San Francisco this week, and the viral explosion of AI-generated video thanks to the company’s new Sora app. 

So I brought in Kanjun Qiu, CEO of AI startup Imbue and a close watcher of the industry, to break down what’s really happening, why it’s happening, and the societal implications of it all. 

Links: 

 All of the updates from OpenAI DevDay 2025 | The Verge

 OpenAI wasn’t expecting Sora’s copyright drama | The Verge

 I’ve fallen into Sora’s slippery slop | The Verge

 Sora 2 users are having fun with Sam Altman’s face | The Verge

 OpenAI will let developers build apps that work inside ChatGPT | The Verge

 OpenAI wants ChatGPT to be your future operating system | Wired

 Sora 2 watermark removers flood the web | 404 Media

 What the arrival of AI-fabricated video means for us | NYT

 Recruiters use AI to scan résumés — applicants are trying to trick it | NYT

 Employers are buried in AI-generated résumés | NYT

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The AI industry is at a major crossroads

I’m Joanna Stern, the senior personal tech columnist at The Wall Street Journal, and this is my final Decoder episode filling in for Nilay while he’s out on parental leave. My guest today: Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe. This is RJ’s third time on the show, and it felt like the perfect follow-up to my conversation last week with Ford CEO Jim Farley.

I loved the idea of going straight from Ford to Rivian. And if you listened to the Farley episode, this one flows nicely. RJ and I cover a lot of the same challenges: tariffs, China, EV pricing. Of course, I also asked about CarPlay. 

Read the full transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 A pretty fascinating look under the hood of the Rivan R2 | The Verge

 Rivian CEO says CarPlay isn’t going to happen | The Verge

 Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says too many carmakers are copying Tesla | Decoder

 Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder

 Rivian breaks ground on $5 billion Georgia plant | AP

 Rivian narrows 2025 delivery guidance Q3 as production slips | WSJ

 Rivian R2 remains on track for $45,000 and 2026 production | Car and Driver

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rivian CEO on CarPlay, Lidar, and affordable EVs

This is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter at The Verge and your Thursday episode guest host. Today, I’m talking with David Hershey, who leads the applied AI team at Anthropic. I wanted to have David on because earlier this week, Anthropic released a brand-new AI model called Claude Sonnet 4.5 that’s been making waves.

So I wanted to sit down with David, who spends a lot of time testing out what modes like Claude Sonnet 4.5 can and can’t do, to ask him where we are on this promise of AI agents, and also what the path forward looks like as agentic technology progresses.

Links: 

 Anthropic releases Claude Sonnet 4.5 in latest bid for AI agents | The Verge

 ChatGPT’s built-in Buy Now button has arrived | The Verge

 OpenAI really wants you to start your day with ChatGPT Pulse | The Verge

 Anthropic’s Claude AI is playing Pokémon | The Verge 

 AI agents are science fiction not yet ready for primetime | The Verge

 Agents are the future AI companies promise and need | The Verge 

 Amazon is betting on agents to win the AI race | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The good, the bad, and the future of AI agents

This is Joanna Stern, senior personal technology columnist at The Wall Street Journal. I’m the last Monday guest host filling in for Nilay here on Decoder while he’s out on parental leave with his adorable new son, and I’m very excited to be talking today to Ford CEO Jim Farley.

I’m a longtime Decoder listener and my favorite episodes are car episodes. I think car CEOs are currently facing some of the most fascinating and complex challenges in both tech and business. So when I was asked to guest host the show I said, “That’s it, car CEOs.” And Farley was at the top of the list. This was a great conversation that covered a lot of ground. I think you’re going to like it. 

Read the full transcript on The Verge.

Links:

 I’ve been driving an EV for a year. I have only one regret. | WSJ

 Ford reveals breakthrough process for lower priced EVs | The Verge

 Ford is betting the future on smaller EV batteries | The Verge

 Ford is doubling down on EVs — the timing is awful | The Verge

 Ford’s CEO on the essential economy and its untapped potential | Aspen Institute

 Ford rejigs EV plans after suffering billions in losses | NYT

 Why Americans can’t buy the world’s best electric car | NYT

 Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 | Decoder

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ford CEO Jim Farley on China, tariffs, and the quest for a $30,000 EV

This is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter at The Verge — and your Thursday episode guest host. I have another couple of shows for you while Nilay is out on parental leave, and we’re going to be spending more time diving into some of the unforeseen consequences of the generative AI boom.

Today, I’m talking with Heidy Khlaaf, who is chief AI scientist at the AI Now Institute, about the tech industry’s shift toward AI military applications. I wanted to know what’s motivated this shift, and why Heidy thinks leading AI firms are being far too cavalier about deploying generative AI in high-risk scenarios.

Links:

 OpenAI is softening its stance on military use | The Verge

 OpenAI awarded $200 million US defense contract | The Verge

 OpenAI is partnering with defense tech company Anduril | The Verge

 Anthropic launches new Claude service for military and intelligence use | The Verge

 Anthropic, Palantir, Amazon team up on defense AI | Axios

 Google scraps promise not to develop AI weapons | The Verge

 Microsoft employees occupy headquarters in protest of Israel contracts | The Verge

 Microsoft’s employee protests have reached a boiling point | The Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How AI safety took a backseat to military money

Guest host Hank Green talks with his friend Dropout CEO Sam Reich about keeping a business simple, trying to run a company the “right way,” and why the internet should be full of as many weird little projects as possible.

Read the full transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 How CollegeHumor reinvented itself for the new internet age | People

 CollegeHumor shaped online comedy. What went wrong? [2020] | Wired

 ‘I believe in this enough to try to do it myself’ [2020] | Digiday

 Jacob Wysocki needed a minute to process that Game Changer | Vulture

 
Game Changer smartly weaponizes its online following | Mashable

 Vimeo CEO Philip Moyer is betting on the human touch | Decoder

 Vimeo to be acquired by Bending Spoons for $1.38B | The Verge

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dropout CEO Sam Reich on business, comedy, and keeping culture weird

Verge senior AI reporter Hayden Field and New York Times reporter Kashmir Hill discuss the significant mental health impact AI chatbots, such as ChatGPT, can have on users — both people in crisis, and also people who seemed stable.

This episode contains non-detailed discussions of suicide and mental illness. If you or someone you know is in crisis, considering self-harm, or needs to talk, please call the Lifeline at 988.

Links: 

 A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in. | New York Times

 Sam Altman says ChatGPT will stop talking about suicide with teens | The Verge

 Chatbots can go into a delusional spiral. Here’s how. | New York Times

 Why is ChatGPT telling people to email me? | New York Times

 They asked an AI chatbot questions. The answers sent them spiraling. | New York Times

 She is in love with ChatGPT | The New York Times

 ‘I feel like I’m going crazy’: ChatGPT fuels delusional spirals | Wall Street Journal

 Meta, OpenAI face FTC inquiry on chatbots’ impact on kids | Bloomberg

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How chatbots — and their makers — are enabling AI psychosis

Today, I’m talking with Gerrit Kazmaier, the brand-new president of product and technology at Workday. Gerrit’s new on the job, maybe a little bit braver than most, and to his credit he came on the show and took the heat. We spent a lot of time talking about what enterprise software really is, what it does and why it has a reputation of being so deeply frustrating for so many people. 

Links: 

 Workday names Gerrit Kazmaier president of product and technology | Workday

 AI Index Report | Stanford HAI

 IBM AI Study | IBM

 How generative AI will impact the future of work | Workday

 Workday launches platform for companies to manage all of their AI agents | TechCrunch

 Everyone hates Workday | Business Insider

 Judge: Workday must face novel AI bias lawsuit | Reuters

 Workday lays off 1,750, 8.5% of employees, in AI push | Associated Press

 Why Workday's CEO made a layoff decision to invest in AI | FastCompany

Transcript: https://www.theverge.com/e/667538

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Workday's new product head hopes he can make you like Workday

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