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WBUR

Untold histories, unsolved mysteries, and other jaw-dropping stories online and IRL. Hosted by Ben Brock Johnson & Amory Sivertson.

Endless Thread

Warning: This episode contains multitudes! Hosts Ben and Amory explore how viral clips of DOGE staffers' video depositions found a new life online after a judge temporarily ordered them removed. They also dabble in a Reddit thought exercise with a potentially dubious origin

Show notes:

 DOGE staffer who flagged grants for 'DEI' struggles to define the term • (The Independent)

 LPT: I started pretending my life is a TV show and it made me more productive • (Reddit)

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson. It was edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.

Sponsor message:

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Beautiful, Terrible Internet

Maybe you can't judge books by their covers. But can you judge people by their books? Reddit's bookshelf detectives say yes. Producer Kalyani Saxena guides hosts Ben and Amory through the stacks and offers a picture of her own bookshelf to the Reddit detectives as tribute.

 r/BookshelvesDetective • (Reddit)

 Started seeing this guy. What does it say about him??
 • (r/BookshelvesDetective)
What do my wife's bookshelves say about her? • (r/BookshelvesDetective)

 What’s his bookshelf say about him? • (r/BookshelvesDetective)

 Snoop our bookshelves! • (r/EndlessThread)

This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Kalyani Saxena, Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Marquis Neal.

***

Sponsor message:

INCOGNI: Take back your personal data with Incogni! Use code ENDLESS at the link below and get 60% off annual plans: https://incogni.com/ENDLESS

Sexy spines or literary red flags?

A woman sitting blissfully on a vibrating laundromat dryer. A faked pregnancy test to dump a bad boyfriend. In 2019, the internet was abuzz about bizarre ads for a mobile game called Lily's Garden. The ads were only about 15 seconds each, but they evoked a whole universe of drama amongst a cast of zany characters that inspired countless YouTube videos and copious internet chatter.

The thing is... the story in the ads had almost nothing to do with the story in the game. In this episode of Endless Thread: creative differences, the wilderness of mobile games, and where the Lily's Garden game-world and the ad-world diverged.

Show notes:

 Lily's Garden on the App Store
 Lily's Garden on Google Play
 • "
I hate Lily's Garden and her teeth • " (PewDiePie, YouTube)

 How Tactile Games made marketing and diversity core to Lily’s Garden’s $500 million success • (Pocket Gamer)

This episode was produced and written by Grace Tatter, co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus. Special thanks to our 2025 Bloomberg Arts Intern Cendy Charles. 

***

Sponsor message:

INCOGNI: Take back your personal data with Incogni! Use code ENDLESS at the link below and get 60% off annual plans: https://incogni.com/ENDLESS

Digging Up Lily's Garden

Note: This episode describes sexual situations that are non-consensual.

Sharing a photo of yourself online has always carried some risk. But things got a lot scarier this year when users began using Grok, X's generative AI chatbot to create sexualized deepfakes of women and children. Iona Fyfe, Scottish folk singer and activist, was one of the people who had an image altered and manipulated by Grok. Hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson talk to her about her experience.

****
Sponsor message:

INCOGNI: Take back your personal data with Incogni! Use code ENDLESS at the link below and get 60% off annual plans: https://incogni.com/ENDLESS

What it's like to be undressed by Grok without your consent

Some rare folks are born with the perfect music taste. But most of us have to look elsewhere for a tune that sparks a shoulder shimmy or two. Hosts Ben and Amory spend some time jamming to obscure music from Reddit. They also explore how a TikTok original became Dr. Pepper's catchy new jingle. 

And "baby, it's good and nice."

Show notes:

 I wasn't sure on this one at first, but you can't beat the messaging • . (Reddit)

 Boko Yout [9-2-5] • (Reddit)

 Molly • by Ecca Vandal

 Theme Song for Dr. Pepper: Let's Collaborate! • (TikTok)

 Dr. Pepper's Viral Jingle Moment Has Everyone Pitching Songs to Brands • (Atlanta Black Star)

 Beautiful and unique music. Hope someone an share details about her and the music • (Reddit)

 everyday_naturalist 
 christycoysh

Obscure music is good and nice!

Melania, a documentary about the first lady, has a 10 percent score on Rotten Tomatoes from critics, but a 90 percent score from audience members, an unusual discrepancy that raises the question, how did Rotten Tomatoes get those scores anyway?

Show notes:

 • The 'Melania' movie audience: Older white women (
NPR • )

 • Melania’s Movie Shows Signs of Bulk Buying to Boost Box Office: Guru (
The Daily Beast • )

 • You Can Thank 'Rush Hour' for Rotten Tomatoes (
Vice • )

 • Rotten Tomatoes Owner Says ‘Melania’ 99% Audience Score Is Not ‘Bot Manipulation’: ‘Reviews Are Verified… Users Bought a Ticket to the Film’ (
Variety • )

Credits: This episode was produced by Kalyani Saxena and Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Kalyani Saxena, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

Fresh, stale, or politics? The Melania doc's Rotten Tomatoes score, explained

In this OG throwback from the Endless Thread archives, hosts Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson revisit a classic episode from their first year of production in 2018.

Originally produced during the show's early partnership with Reddit, "Love in Transition" explores the most powerful emotion in the universe in all its forms, shapes, and sizes. This might just be your perfect weekend listen, celebrating a timeless story about affection and the many ways we experience love today.

Rewind: Love In Transition

In the 1980s, a moral panic swept across America. Parents, prosecutors, and talk show hosts became convinced that devil worshippers were hiding in plain sight, abusing children at daycares, performing ritualistic sacrifices, and corrupting the innocent.

Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About has a new podcast about this period of Satanic Panic called The Devil You Know. She talks to Ben and Amory about the cultural forces that turned unfounded fears into a nationwide hysteria, and how would the Satanic Panic might have unfolded differently in today's age of social media.

Credits: This episode was produced by Amory Sivertson with assistance from Grace Tatter. It was co-hosted by Ben Brock Johnson and Amory Sivertson, and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix and sound design by Paul Vaitkus.

You're Wrong About the Satanic Panic

What temperature do you like your fruit? What is the correct way to peel a banana? This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory cherry pick a couple of the hottest fruit debates taking place on Reddit.

Show notes:

 My husband is mildly infuriated that I open a banana from the antenna side! • (Reddit)

 CMV: The only correct way to peel and eat a banana is from the bottom. • (Reddit)

 Microwaving fruit is the way to go • (Reddit)

 I believe that fruit is better microwaved. • (Reddit)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

Hot (and not) fruit takes

In 1970, a young biologist named David Mech published what could be the most consequential book on wolves ever written. At the time, The Wolf: The Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species, was the most complete collection of scientific knowledge on wolves money could buy, and it became best seller for Dave's publishers. But outside of the world of wolf biology, the book is also credited with unleashing a certain idea into our popular lexicon: The Alpha.

The thing is, Dave made a mistake – and the alpha wolf, doesn't exist.

This week on Endless Thread, Ben and Amory track down the origins of "the alpha," and whether this idea – which has been recanted by the very scientist who popularized it – has any legitimacy when talking about people.

Show notes:

 The Myth of the Alpha Wolf • (The New Yorker)*

 Do alpha males even exist? • (The Guardian)

 Elon Musk Shares Theory That Only ‘Alpha Males’ Should Vote • (Newsweek)

This content was originally created for audio. An auto-generated transcript is available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Heads up that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to translate to text.

The Alpha Male Myth

Chris and Kim have been married for 13 years and things have been going really, really well. So well, in fact, that they wondered... what's next? Their answer: consensual non-monogamy. They think of their additional sexual partners as "cupcakes," sweet additions to the healthy, hearty "meal" that is their marriage.

Cupcake

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