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The China-Global South Project

Twice-weekly discussion about China's engagement across Africa and the Global South hosted by journalist Eric Olander and Asia-Africa scholar Cobus van Staden in Johannesburg.

The China in Africa Podcast

Every year, illegal mining, fishing, and logging drain billions of dollars from West Africa's economies as the problem persists largely unchecked, with Chinese actors playing an outsized role. Fueled by chronic corruption among local regulators across the region and seemingly insatiable demand for these resources in China, curtailing these illegal activities often feels impossible.
 
But there's still hope. Earlier this year, a group of 21 scholars and analysts, mostly from West Africa, came together to develop new solutions and policy recommendations to reform the mining, timber, and fishing trades, empowering local communities while reducing local corruption.
 
Their findings were released earlier this fall in a series of three reports co-published by the Keogh School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame and the Atlantic Council in Washington, D.C.
 
Two of the project organizations, Notre Dame Professor Joshua Eisenman, and Caroline Costello, assistant director of the Atlantic Council's Global China Hub, join Eric & Géraud to discuss the reports and how China can play a constructive role in helping to end illegal resource extraction in West Africa.
 
📌 Topics covered include:
 
 • China's environmental footprint in West Africa
 • Why illegal extraction persists despite strong laws
 • The politics behind "China-free" resource corridors
 • Lessons from China's ivory ban and whether rosewood could be next
 • What African governments — not just China — must do differently
 
Download the reports:
 
 Chinese mining in West Africa: Responding to the environmental and social impacts Chinese fishing in West Africa: Responding to the environmental and social impacts Chinese demand for timber and wildlife in West Africa: Responding to the environmental and social impacts 
Show Notes:
 
 The Financial Times: • 
The American company seeking to counter China in Africa • by David Pilling and Leslie Hook
 Foreign Policy: • 
 China's Appetite for Rosewood Is Causing Chaos in Africa • by Joshua Eisenman and Caroline Costello
 Environmental Investigation Agency: • 
 New Report Finds That Home Depot Sold Illegally Sourced Tropical Wood for Years 
Join the Discussion:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @stadenesque | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
Follow CGSP in French and Spanish: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
Join us Patreon!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

China's Outsized Role in West Africa's Illegal Resource Trade

Africa's industrialization push is colliding with the defining economic question of this era: how can any country or region climb the manufacturing value chain so long as China dominates industrial production of pretty much, well, everything? 
 
But even if overcoming the China question is possible, African leaders then face a second, more daunting obstacle: infrastructure. The lack of reliable power, water, roads, and other infrastructure necessary to support industrialization is severe in many parts of the continent.
 
A new book by Professor Carlos Oya, a preeminent China-Africa scholar at the University of London, details China's complex role in Africa's pursuit of industrialization. Eric & Cobus speak with Carlos about how China is simultaneously a big challenge and an important part of the solution.
 
Topics covered
 
 • Why industrialization is back at the center of African economic strategy
 • The infrastructure constraint: electricity costs, reliability, and targeted hubs
 • Ethiopia's experience: what worked, what didn't, and why it mattered
 • China's evolving role: from policy-bank infrastructure to private manufacturing plays
 • The evidence on "Chinese labor" myths and what research actually shows
 
Download the book (free):
 
 Cambridge University Press • : 
 China for Africa's Industrialization? • by Carlos Oya
 
Join the Discussion:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @stadenesque | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
Follow CGSP in French and Spanish: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
Join us Patreon!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

China's Role in Africa's Industrialization: Obstacle, Partner, or Both?

The U.S. and the DR Congo signed a landmark deal on critical minerals during President Félix Tshisekedi's visit to the White House this week. The pact provides the U.S. with extraordinary access to the Congolese mining sector and is widely expected to inhibit Chinese mining companies in the DRC from expanding their operations.
 
CGSP Africa Editor Géraud Neema joins Eric & Cobus to break down the details of the deal and explain why what happened in the DRC could set a dangerous precedent for Chinese mining operations in other African countries.
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @stadenesque | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

Why the U.S.-DRC Mining Deal is Bad News For China

With the U.S. absent from two major international summits this month, the G20 in South Africa and the COP30 in Brazil, we got an early look at what the post-American order is starting to look like. In both instances, China moved to fill the void left by the U.S., taking on a much more prominent role.
 
Anika Patel, China analyst at the non-profit climate news site Carbon Brief, reported extensively from COP30 and noted a key difference in Beijing's messaging at the different summits in Johannesburg and Belém. In South Africa, Chinese Premier Li Qiang sought to position Beijing as an emergent global norm-setter, whereas in Brazil, the Chinese delegation explicitly rejected a leadership role.
 
Anika joins Eric & Cobus to discuss China's complicated position at the COP30 summit and why, even though it's the world's leader in climate energy and technology, the country explicitly doesn't want the designation "climate leader."
 
📌 Key topics in this episode:
 
• China's unusually prominent role at COP30 as the U.S. stayed away
 • Why China rejects the "climate leader" label despite its influence
 • How consensus politics shaped COP30 outcomes on finance, fossil fuels, and just transition
 • Climate finance tensions and China's insistence on developing-country status
 • Battles over CBAM, EV tariffs, rare earths, and other unilateral trade measures
 • How developing countries weigh cheap Chinese green tech against local industry goals
 • Why China's carbon market, energy transition, and pavilion drew huge interest at COP30
 
SHOW NOTES:
 
 Carbon Brief: • 
 COP30: Key outcomes for food, forests, land and nature at the UN climate talks in Belém Carbon Brief: • 
 COP30: Key outcomes agreed at the UN climate talks in Belém 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @stadenesque
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

China at COP30 and the New Politics of Climate Change

China has funded, designed, and built more than 200 government buildings across Africa, including the headquarters of the African Union and Ecowas, foreign ministry annexes in Ghana and Kenya, and at least 15 national parliaments.
 
Eric and Cobus speak with Innocent Batsani-Ncube, an associate professor of African politics at Queen Mary University of London and author of the new book China and African Parliaments.
 
Drawing on extensive fieldwork in Lesotho, Malawi, and Zimbabwe, Batsani-Ncube explains how China's parliamentary construction boom works, why African governments welcome it, and what he calls "subtle power"—a form of elite-level influence that sits between soft and sharp power.
 
📌 Key topics in this episode:
 
 • Why China builds African parliamentary buildings — and why African governments accept them
 • "Subtle power" vs. soft power vs. sharp power
 • The politics behind construction, design, and land selection
 • How these buildings shape legislative capacity and political identity
 • Case studies: Lesotho, Malawi, Zimbabwe, Congo-Brazzaville
 • Does this compromise sovereignty? Or strengthen parliaments?
 • Are these buildings really vectors for Chinese espionage?
 
📘 Purchase China and African Parliaments by Innocent Batsani-Ncube on Amazon
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander 
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

How China Uses Parliamentary Buildings to Build Influence in Africa

There's mounting evidence from the United Nations and others that Chinese organized crime syndicates are moving more of their operations from countries in Southeast Asia to Africa. These groups are contributing to a surge in illicit crypto mining, scam centers, illegal wildlife trafficking, and black market weapons sales.
 
African countries with already weak governance systems are particularly vulnerable.
 
Géraud speaks with Adam Rousselle, a researcher and author who tracks the illicit arms trade, about his recent article on the topic published by the Jamestown Foundation. Adam explains how all of the different Chinese illegal trade networks in Africa are interlinked with one another.
 
SHOW NOTES:
 
 United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime: • 
 Inflection Point: Global Implications of
 • 
 Scam Centres, Underground Banking and Illicit Online Marketplaces in Southeast Asia Jamestown Foundation: • 
 Illicit PRC-linked Finance Enables Arms Diversion in Africa • by Adam Rouselle
 
CHAPTERS:
 
 The Illicit Underworld • – How illegal mining, logging, and weapons flows shape China–Africa debates
 Individuals vs the State • – Why Chinese nationals abroad are often mistaken for Beijing's agents
 South Kivu Gold Trail • – What the recent court case reveals about Chinese smuggling networks
 Governance Gaps • – How weak enforcement and political protection fuel illicit economies
 Cryptocurrency Networks • – The rise of Chinese-linked crypto operations in Nigeria and beyond
 Weapons on the Move • – Why Chinese-made guns keep appearing in Africa's conflict zones
 The UAE Hub • – How Dubai became the transit point for arms and illicit finance
 The Leaky Bucket • – Why illicit flows don't imply coordination or state intent
 Local Complicity • – The real role of African politicians, militaries, and brokers
 Reputational Risks for Beijing • – Embassy frustrations and the cost of unmanaged actors
 Media Distortions • – How U.S. and European narratives simplify complex realities
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

Chinese Nationals' Role in Africa's Illicit Weapons, Mining, and Money Flows

China's rapid ascent from rural poverty to industrial superpower reshaped the global economy and established a new center of gravity for manufacturing. Today, Chinese factories anchor much of the world's supply chains, producing goods at a speed and scale that few countries can match.
 
Behind this transformation is a system that author Dan Wang describes in his new book "Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future" as the "engineering state," a model defined by massive investments in infrastructure, strategic planning, and so-called "process knowledge" gleaned from the country's rapid industrial development.
 
Now, more and more, the Chinese government touts this development model as an example for other countries in the Global South to emulate.
 
Dan joins Eric to discuss whether the so-called "engineering state" is replicable elsewhere or if it's a uniquely Chinese phenomenon.
 CHAPTERS: 
• Setting the Stage – China's rise from rural poverty to industrial superpower
 • The Engineering State – How China builds, plans, and organizes at a massive scale
 • Roots of the Model – East Asian development traditions and Soviet legacies
 • Infrastructure as Strategy – High-speed rail, bridges, airports, and the costs behind them
 • Industrial Capacity – Manufacturing clusters, supply chains, and process knowledge
 • The Speed Advantage – Why Chinese firms move faster than global competitors
 • Tech Transfer Debates – Joint ventures, old IP, and myths about forced transfers
 • Subsidies and Support – What Chinese industrial subsidies do—and what they don't
 • Exporting the Model – Limits of replication in Africa, Asia, and the Global South
 • The China Price – How scale, logistics, and workforce learning lock in dominance
 • Internal Tensions – Debt, underused infrastructure, and diminishing returns
 • Shifting Priorities – Xi's push away from consumer tech and toward strategic industries
 • Global Backlash – Overcapacity, trade pushback, and rising protectionism
 • Future Crossroads – Why China's development engine is losing momentum
 • Lessons for the Global South – What countries can adapt—and what they must avoid
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander 
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

Is China's "Engineering State" the New Development Model for the Global South?

China is breaking the rules of development. Typically, as countries progress up the value chain, they transition from agriculture to light industry, then to heavy industry, and ultimately to high-technology and services. And as they move up the value chain, this creates opportunities for less-developed countries to advance.
 
But China's not doing that. Chinese manufacturers are holding on to their immense productive capacity, enabling them to produce both low-tech sneakers and high-tech semiconductors at a scale and cost that are unrivaled.
 
Now, as developing countries around the world seek to move up the value chain, they will have to compete head-on against the dreaded "China Price."
 
James Kynge, who covered China for nearly 30 years at the Financial Times, delved into this challenge in a fascinating audiobook that came out earlier this year, "Global Tech Wars: China's Race to Dominate." James joins Eric from London to explain how China's ability to produce a $6 toaster exemplifies the country's enormous manufacturing advantage that will be very difficult, if not impossible, for other countries to match.
 
CHAPTERS:
 
• Introduction – The $6 toaster and the global value chain crisis
 • The Flying Geese Model – How automation broke development's old path
 • China's Dual Reality – A continent-sized economy of billionaires and low-wage labor
 • Industrial Clusters – The unbeatable advantage of Shenzhen and the Pearl River Delta
 • The Global South's Dilemma – Competing against the "China price"
 • Automation and Inequality – Why manufacturing isn't moving offshore
 • The $1 Trillion Surplus – Trade backlash and global tensions
 • Searching for Solutions – Industrial policy and self-strengthening in the Global South
 • Winners and Losers – Cheap exports, consumer gains, and producer pain
 • Political Risk – Xi Jinping's lesson from Western deindustrialization
 • The Humanoid Robot Moment – From $6 toasters to $6,000 robots
 • China's Auto Revolution – BYD and the new wave of affordable EVs
 • The Double-Edged Future – Opportunity and disruption in China's rise
 
SHOW NOTES:
 
 Financial Times • : 
Global Tech Wars: China's Race to Dominate • by James Kynge
 Financial Times: • C
hina's plan to reshape world trade on its own terms • by James Kynge and Keith Fray
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

Why China's Ability to Make a $6 Toaster is a Big Problem for the Global South

Ten years ago, African news coverage of China's engagement on the continent was often quite negative and repackaged many of the critical Western narratives. Today, the situation is very different.
 
China has spent considerable resources cultivating closer ties with African news outlets. Through a combination of journalist junkets, so-called "content sharing agreements," and Chinese equipment donations to African state broadcasters, Beijing has been very effective in generating much more positive coverage.
 
In this special episode from the African Investigative Journalism Conference at Wits University in Johannesburg, Eric & Cobus speak with Aggrey Mutambo, Africa editor at the Daily Nation newspaper in Kenya, about the changing Chinese narrative in the African news media.
 
CHAPTERS:
 
• Introduction – From Johannesburg and the African Investigative Journalism Conference
 • A Decade of Change – How China's media image in Africa evolved
 • Shifting Narratives – From Western framing to African perspectives
 • Building Influence – Beijing's strategy for cultivating local journalists
 • The Tools of Soft Power – Junkets, content sharing, and equipment donations
 • Inside the Newsroom – How editors like Aggrey Mutambo see China coverage now
 • Competing Stories – Western skepticism vs. Chinese engagement
 • Frustration with the West – Why African journalists are rethinking narratives
 • The Xinjiang Question – How African reporters interpret Chinese messaging
 • Development and Delivery – The appeal of China's efficiency model
 • Trade, Trust, and Strategy – What Kenya and South Africa want from Beijing
 • The Next Chapter – What balanced China–Africa journalism could look like
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

How China Changed Its Image in the African News Media

As China's economic influence expands, so does its ambition to shape the very system that once constrained it.
 
In this episode of The China-Global South Podcast, Eric speaks with Greg Chin and Kevin Gallagher from Boston University's Global Development Policy Center about their new book that details China's transformation from a "rules taker" within the Bretton Woods system to a "rules maker" who's now reshaping the international development finance architecture.
 
Greg and Kevin explore the country's growing role in the IMF and World Bank, its creation of new institutions like the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank (AIIB) and the New Development Bank (NDB), and what this means for developing nations navigating between Western and Chinese-led finance.
 
CHAPTERS:
 
• Introduction – A brief calm in U.S.–China tensions
 • Rule Taker → Rule Maker – China's rise inside global finance
 • Building Alternatives – Creating the AIIB and NDB
 • Two-Way Countervailing Power – Leveraging inside–outside influence
 • Green Finance and "Next Practices" – Raising the bar on development norms
 • Debt and Diplomacy – How China handles restructuring
 • Institutional Layering – Shaping without dismantling
 • Washington's Dilemma – Anxiety over losing control
 • The Global South's New Agency – More options, more leverage
 • A New Multilateral Moment – Uncertain future for global governance
 
SHOW NOTES:
 
 • 📚 
Read the book (free download) 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 X: @ChinaGSProject | @eric_olander | @christiangeraud
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 YouTube: www.youtube.com/@ChinaGlobalSouth
 
Now on Bluesky! Follow CGSP at @chinagsproject.bsky.social
 
FOLLOW CGSP IN FRENCH & SPANISH: 
 
 • French: 
www.projetafriquechine.com • | 
@AfrikChine • Spanish: 
www.chinalasamericas.com • | 
@ChinaAmericas 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 Become a CGSP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CGSP Podcast mug! www.patreon.com/chinaglobalsouth

China's Evolution from "Rules Taker" to "Rules Maker" in Development Finance

China is forecast to break another trade record with Africa this year, potentially even crossing the $300 billion barrier. While that sounds great, the big number masks a distorted trading relationship that is mostly concentrated in extractives among a small handful of countries.
 
African countries to date have failed to move up the value chain by processing more of their raw materials prior to export. And that, according to prominent Africa-Asia scholar Jean-Claude Maswana, an economics professor at Ritsumeikan University, is not China's fault.
 
Jean-Claude joins Eric & Cobus from Kyoto, Japan to discuss what African countries need to do if they want a more balanced, equitable trading relationship with China.
 
JOIN THE DISCUSSION:
 
Twitter: @ChinaGSProject| @stadenesque | @eric_olander | @jcmaswana
 
Facebook: www.facebook.com/ChinaAfricaProject
 
FOLLOW CAP IN FRENCH AND ARABIC:
 
Français: www.projetafriquechine.com | @AfrikChine
 
عربي: www.akhbaralsin-africia.com | @AkhbarAlSinAfr
 
JOIN US ON PATREON!
 
Become a CAP Patreon member and get all sorts of cool stuff, including our Week in Review report, an invitation to join monthly Zoom calls with Eric & Cobus, and even an awesome new CAP Podcast mug!
 
www.patreon.com/chinaafricaproject
 
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Why It Isn't China's Fault Its Trade With Africa Is so Distorted

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