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Dave Stachowiak

Leaders aren’t born, they’re made. This Monday show helps you discover leadership wisdom through insightful conversations. Independently produced weekly since 2011, Dr. Dave Stachowiak brings perspective from a thriving, global leadership academy, plus more than 15 years of leadership at Dale Carnegie. Bestselling authors, expert researchers, deep conversation, and regular dialogue with listeners have attracted 40 million downloads and over 250K followers on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Activate your FREE membership to access the entire leadership and management library at CoachingforLeaders.com

Coaching for Leaders

Patrick Lencioni: The Motive
Pat is one of the founders of The Table Group and is the pioneer of the organizational health movement. He is the author of 11 books, which have sold over 6 million copies and been translated into more than 30 languages.

As President of the Table Group, Pat spends his time speaking and writing about leadership, teamwork, and organizational health and consulting with executives and their teams. He is the author of The Motive: Why So Many Leaders Abdicate Their Most Important Responsibilities*.

In this conversation, Pat and I discuss the distinction between reward-centered leaders and service-orientated leaders. We explore the five omissions that reward-centered leaders tend to make and how to avoid these omissions. Plus, Pat introduces his Working Genius model.
Key Points
When leaders are motivated by personal reward, they will avoid the unpleasant situations and activities that leadership requires. -Patrick Lencioni
5 Omissions of Reward-Centered Leaders:

 Developing the leadership team
 Managing subordinates (and making them manage theirs)
 Having difficult or uncomfortable conversations
 Running great team meetings
 Communicating constantly and repetitively to employees

Many of the reward-focused CEOs I’ve known will attempt to justify their abdication of managing their people by saying, ‘I hire experienced executives and I trust them. They shouldn’t need me to manage them.’ Of course, this is inane. Managing someone is not a punitive activity, nor a sign of distrust. -Patrick Lencioni
Resources Mentioned

 The Motive: Why So Many Leaders Abdicate Their Most Important Responsibilities* by Patrick Lencioni
 Working Genius assessment (use code COACHING for 50% off)

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 How to Create an Unstoppable Culture, with Ginger Hardage (episode 350)
 How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)
 Three Stories to Tell During Uncertainty, with David Hutchens (episode 486)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

505: Your Leadership Motive, with Patrick Lencioni

Anne Chow: Lead Bigger
Anne Chow was the CEO of AT&T Business and the first woman of color CEO in AT&T’s 140+ year history, responsible for leading a $35B global operating unit of over 35,000 people. She was named to Fortune’s Most Powerful Women in Business twice and today serves on a number of boards, including FranklinCovey, 3M, and CSX. She is the author of Lead Bigger: The Transformative Power of Inclusion.

We all know the importance of values, but it’s often hard to know where to begin when clarifying them with a team. In this conversation, Anne and I explore how to align on values that support a great culture and move towards a vision.
Key Points

 Values and ideologies are distinct. Leading bigger means honoring diverse ideologies while aligning on core values.
 Bigger leaders have the courage to admit and cite situations where they fall short.
 When asking people to craft values, invite them to start by individually considering their personal values.
 When discussing values as a group, highlight both the common agreements and also the outlying ideas.
 Leaders must ultimately decide which values best embody the culture and vision of their organization.
 Bring in different stakeholders to do a gut check on whether the values are legitimate.
 Measure behaviors against values and review and update values and metrics regularly.

Resources Mentioned

 Lead Bigger: The Transformative Power of Inclusion by Anne Chow

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 How to Create Team Guidelines, with Susan Gerke (episode 192)
 How to Discover What Others Value, with Joe Hart (episode 616)
 How to Prevent a Team From Repeating Mistakes, with Robert “Cujo” Teschner (episode 660)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

712: Clarifying Values for a Workplace People Love, with Anne Chow

Jennifer Garvey Berger: Changing on the Job
Jennifer Garvey Berger is cofounder and CEO of Cultivating Leadership, a consultancy that serves executives and teams in the private, non-profit, and government sectors. Her clients include Google, Microsoft, Novartis, Wikipedia, and Oxfam International. She is the author of four leadership books, including now in it’s second edition, Changing on the Job: How Leaders Become Courageous, Wise, and Steady in an Anxious World*.

We often think about feedback as something we give to someone else. What if, in addition to that, feedback is an opportunity for both parties to learn and grow? In this conversation, Jennifer and I explore how this can open a door to some of the best leadership work we do.
Key Points

 If we view feedback as only giving our truth to someone else, we’ve missed a huge opportunity for growth.
 Start by separating what happened from the interpretation of what happened.
 Get curious about your own response: what made you react so strongly?
 Talk it out. You have to welcome someone else into your thinking if you’re going to really learn.
 Invite in how the other person sees the situation. Consider saying, “I’m really interested in what this looked like from your perspective.”
 The process of unwinding what you hear is the good work of leadership and some the best work you can do.
 Build a solution together.

Resources Mentioned

 Changing on the Job: How Leaders Become Courageous, Wise, and Steady in an Anxious World* by Jennifer Garvey Berger

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 Essentials of Adult Development, with Mindy Danna (episode 273)
 How to Give Feedback, with Russ Laraway (episode 583)
 How to Lead Better Through Complexity, with Jennifer Garvey Berger (episode 613)

Production Credit
Coaching for Leaders is edited by Andrew Kroeger. Production support is provided by Sierra Priest.
Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

713: How to Grow From Feedback, with Jennifer Garvey Berger

Bonni Stachowiak: Teaching in Higher Ed
Bonni is the host of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast, Dean of Teaching and Learning and Professor of Business and Management at Vanguard University, and my life partner. Prior to her academic career, she was a human resources consultant and executive officer for a publicly traded company. Bonni is the author of The Productive Online and Offline Professor: A Practical Guide*.
Listener Questions

 Josh asked about helpful practices for setting chat groups in the workplace, especially for remote workers.
 Lily was curious about the best way to structure a first session of a new innovation group and also how to help people engage.
 Nicole wondered how she might navigate a situation with a particular donor who is asking for more support than is typical.

Resources Mentioned

 The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters* by Priya Parker
 The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable* by Patrick Lencioni
 Sunrise, Sunset from Fiddler on the Roof

Related Episodes

 How to Create Meaningful Gatherings, with Priya Parker (episode 395)
 Transitioning to Remote Leadership, with Tammy Bjelland (episode 509)
 Transcend Leadership Struggles Through Your Strengths, with Lisa Cummings (episode 692)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

714: Team Collaboration and Communication, with Bonni Stachowiak

Sunita Sah: Defy
Sunita Sah is an award-winning professor at Cornell University and an expert in organizational psychology, leading groundbreaking research on influence, authority, compliance, and defiance. A trained physician, her research and analyses have been widely published in leading academic journals and media entities including The New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Harvard Business Review, and Scientific American. She is the author of Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes*.

We often think of defiance as a snap judgement. Yet, it’s so much more nuanced and purposeful than it often appears. In this conversation, Sunita and I explore the common patterns of defiance and how we can all do a better job of standing up for ourselves.
Key Points

 We follow bad advice – even when we know it is obviously bad – to avoid appearing unhelpful.
 Defiance means acting in accordance with your true values when there is pressure to do otherwise.
 True defiance is not a snap judgement; it’s a process.
 Acts of defiance are preceded by many moments of conscious compliance, when defiance is deferred.
 Five stages of defiance often emerge: (1) Tension, (2) Acknowledgement (to ourselves), (3) Escalation (vocalize to others), (4) Threat of non-compliance, and (5) Act of defiance.
 Vocalizing our concern to someone else is a key pivot point on the journey to ultimately saying no.
 Respond explicitly to these questions: (1) Who am I? (2) What type of situation is this? and (3) What does a person like me do in a situation such as this?

Resources Mentioned

 Defy: The Power of No in a World That Demands Yes* by Sunita Sah

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 Find Courage to Speak When It Matters Most, with Allan McDonald (episode 229)
 How to Build Psychological Safety, with Amy Edmondson (episode 404)
 How to Speak Up, with Connson Locke (episode 546)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

715: How to Stand Up for Yourself, with Sunita Sah

Adam Galinsky: Inspire
Adam Galinsky is the Vice Dean for Diversity, Equity and Inclusion and Paul Calello Professor of Leadership and Ethics at the Columbia Business School. He co-authored the book Friend & Foe and his TED talk, How to Speak Up for Yourself, is one of the most popular of all time with over 7 million views. He's the author of Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others.

Leaders can delegate many things, but vision is not one of them. Most every leader needs to be able to articulate the future. In this conversation, Adam and I explore the building blocks to get better at inspiring others.
Key Points

 Every leader has the potential to be inspiring. We can choose to get better.
 Whatever a leader says, either positive or negative, will be amplified.
 When values are brought front and center, they inspire behavior that creates a better future.
 Inspiring leaders offer a big picture, optimistic view of the future.
 Make visions simple and vivid. Simplicity is the key to inception. Use strong imagery that brings details to life.
 Repetition is essential for a vision to take hold. The more often we hear something, the more likely it becomes our own truth.

Resources Mentioned

 Inspire: The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others* by Adam Galinsky

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 How to Sell Your Vision, with Michael Hyatt (episode 482)
 The Beliefs of Inspirational Leaders, with Stephen M. R. Covey (episode 707)
 How to Create Your Personal Vision (Audio course)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

716: How to Share an Inspiring Vision, with Adam Galinsky

Alison Wood Brooks: Talk
Alison Wood Brooks is the O’Brien Associate Professor of Business Administration and Hellman Faculty Fellow at the Harvard Business School, where she created and teaches a course called TALK. As a behavioral scientist, she is a leading expert on the science of conversation and her research was referenced in two of the top ten most-viewed TED talks and depicted in Pixar’s Inside Out 2. She is the author of Talk: The Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves*.

Conversations are the venues where leaders do so much of their work. We all know someone who always can keep a conversation interesting and relevant. In this episode, Alison and I discuss how a key tactic can help you towards more meaningful conversations.
Key Points

 Healthy relationships are critical for success, and relationships are about talking.
 Good conversation is both instinct and deliberate effort. Preparing topics in advance improves conversation immensely.
 Topics for conversation can be sourced from almost anywhere and help even if we don’t use those topics.
 Good topic management is more important than the right topic. The best conversationalists know when to shift.
 Small talk in an essential exploration ground for getting to bigger, more meaningful conversation.

Resources Mentioned

 Talk: The Science of Conversation and the Art of Being Ourselves* by Alison Wood Brooks

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 The Way Into Difficult Conversations, with Kwame Christian (episode 497)
 How to Help Difficult Conversations Go Better, with Sheila Heen (episode 655)
 How to Connect with People Better, with Charles Duhigg (episode 670)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

717: A Key Tactic for Way Better Conversations, with Alison Wood Brooks

Sandra Matz: Mindmasters
Sandra Matz is a Columbia Business School professor, computational social scientist, and pioneering expert in psychological targeting. Her research uncovers the hidden relationships between our digital lives and our psychology with the goal of helping businesses and individuals make better decisions. She is the author of Mindmasters: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior*.

Algorithms are becoming more influential with each passing day. That’s why leaders must understand their power and then decide how their organizations engage. In this conversation, Sandra and I discuss where psychological targeting is at, where it’s going, and the opportunity you have to make the world a bit better.
Key Points

 Everyone knows everything in a small town (for better or worse). In the same way, psychological targeting can be used for both evil and good.
 Psychological targeting already is successful at identifying wealth, personality, income level, and sexual orientation – and keeps improving.
 None of this is going away. Understanding how the game of targeting is played can help you make it work to your advantage.
 Leaders and organizations who use targeting responsibly can do tremendous good, including helping people save money and flag early interventions for health crises.
 Be transparent with what data you’re collecting and how you’re using it. Consider newer practices like federated learning that protect privacy and provide permission-based access.
 Design systems and practices that anticipate the reality of future leaders with different values.

Resources Mentioned

 Mindmasters: The Data-Driven Science of Predicting and Changing Human Behavior by Sandra Matz

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 Serve Others Through Marketing, with Seth Godin (episode 381)
 The Way to Earn Attention, with Raja Rajamannar (episode 521)
 The Reason People Make Buying Decisions, with Marcus Collins (episode 664)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

718: How Leaders Can Use the Algorithms for Good, with Sandra Matz

Ethan Kross: Shift
Ethan Kross is the author of the national bestseller Chatter and one of the world’s leading experts on emotion regulation. An award-winning professor in the University of Michigan’s top-ranked Psychology Department and its Ross School of Business, he is the Director of the Emotion and Self-Control Laboratory. He's the author of the new book, Shift: Managing Your Emotions--So They Don't Manage You*.

Being a leader means that our emotions get triggered, often many times a day. While none of us can avoid those triggers, how we respond to them can make all the difference. In this conversation, Ethan and I explore his research on how to better manage our emotions.
Key Points

 We often assume that approaching emotions is universally good and avoiding emotions is universally bad. Reality is much more nuanced.
 We can strategically use our senses to modulate our feelings.
 Music is a simple and powerful way to manage emotions proactively. Use playlists that align with the mood you wish to create.
 Using distancing language when talking to yourself (i.e. saying “you” instead of “I”) can help you regulate.
 Time shifting may help regulate your emotions. Ask yourself, how will I feel about this in a week? A month? A year?
 Different tools work for different people at different times. Experiment to help you determine what works best for you.

Resources Mentioned

 Shift: Managing Your Emotions--So They Don't Manage You by Ethan Kross

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

 How to Find Helpful Advisors, with Ethan Kross (episode 516)
 How to Grow From Your Errors, with Amy Edmondson (episode 663)
 How to Handle High-Pressure Situations, with Dan Dworkis (episode 701)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

719: How to Better Manage Your Emotions, with Ethan Kross

Dave speaks with Irma Tragesser, an alum of the Coaching for Leaders Academy, on how she shifted her approach to get more and better insights from her team.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will close on March 14, 2025. Visit the Academy page for details and to apply.

Getting More and Better Insights, with Irma Tragesser

Edgar Schein and Peter Schein: Humble Leadership
Ed Schein is Professor Emeritus of MIT’s Sloan School of Management. He is the author of many books and publications, including the new book Humble Leadership*. Peter Schein is the cofounder and COO of the Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute and co-author of Humble Leadership*.
Key Points

 The problems today’s leaders face are becoming more and more complex, and leaders can no longer be expected to know all the answers.
 All people are vulnerable in one sense because nobody knows everything.
 The value systems of many companies do not incentivize managers to get the most out of their teams, instead of rewarding managers for playing up to management.

Bonus Audio

 Transparency, Openness, and Safety

Resources Mentioned

 Humble Leadership* by Edgar and Peter Schein
 Organizational Culture and Leadership Institute

Related Episodes

 How to Be a Non-Conformist, with Adam Grant (episode 238)
 Turn Followers Into Leaders, with David Marquet (episode 241)
 How to Increase Your Conversational Intelligence, with Judith Glaser (episode 271)
 How to Be a Happier Person, with Neil Pasricha (episode 334)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic.

363: The Path of Humble Leadership, with Edgar Schein and Peter Schein

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