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SpyCast

SpyCast, the official podcast of the International Spy Museum, is a journey into the shadows of international espionage. Each week, host Sasha Ingber brings you the latest insights and intriguing tales from spies, secret agents, and covert communicators, with a focus on how this secret world reaches us all in our everyday lives. Tune in to discover the critical role intelligence has played throughout history and today. Brought to you from Airwave, Goat Rodeo, and the International Spy Museum. 

The Spy Museum does not endorse, approve, or support the opinions stated by guest speakers. Statements made by speakers do not represent the position or opinion of the International Spy Museum.

The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is the radical force behind the nation’s most revolutionary, high-tech military initiatives over the past half century. To write the first definitive history of the world’s most powerful and productive military science agency, bestselling author Annie Jacobsen tracked down DARPA scientists, past and present, including current neuroscientists building an artificial brain, cell biologists working on limb regeneration, and even the Nobel Laureate who invented the laser. From conflict-tested science experiments, like Agent Orange and electronic barriers on the battlefield during Vietnam, to War on Terror insect drones, smart rockets, camera-filled war zones and advanced computer programs, she tracks DARPA from its Cold War inception to present day research controversies. Jacobsen shared her journey to the heart of the military-industrial complex—a place where science fiction and military science collide—and revealed a future that is fascinating and potentially frightening.
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Author Debriefing: The Pentagon’s Brain: An Uncensored History of DARPA, America’s Top-Secret Military Research Agency

Summary
Dr. Alexis Albion (LinkedIn, Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss amazing artifacts with amazing stories from SPY’s newest pop-up exhibit: “Secrets Revealed: Highlights from the Grant Verstandig Collection.”

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

Casablanca’s spy connection

Lasting effects of the Rosenberg trial

Women in Intelligence

WWII covert operations

Reflections

What makes a story timeless?

The human dimension of history

And much, much more …

Quote of the Week
“To us, that might be the Rosenbergs – These sort of incredible historic figures from the Cold War Intelligence. But to Mike Meeropol, it's his mom and dad. So, I think it's a really human story as well. This letter makes recommendations about their sentencing, about life and death, and again, for me it evokes that really human dimension about whether or not this mother might have lived.” – Dr. Alexis Albion.

Resources 
*SpyCasts*

Hitler’s Trojan Horse – Nazi Intelligence with Nigel West (2023)

Honey Trapped: Sex, Betrayal & Love – with Henry Schlesinger (2022)

Amazon to Darien, Atlantic to Pacific – Intelligence in Colombia with former Head of its Navy Admiral Hernando Wills (2022)

My Life Looking at Spies &the Media with Paul Lashmar (2021)

*Beginner Resources*

Soviet Spy Scandal: Who Were the Rosenbergs?, L. Davidson, HistoryHit (2022) [Article]

Casablanca in 2 Minutes, YouTube (2019) [Video]

Who was the real Mata Hari?, N. Barber, BBC Culture (2017) [Article]

How D-Day Was Fought From The Sea, Imperial War Museum (n.d.) [Article]

*Artifacts Discussed*

Mata Hari Pencil Sketch (ca. 1905)

German Bombing Map, WWII (1941)

Victor Lazlos Prop Passport (ca. 1942)

The Neptune Monograph (ca. 1944)

J. Edgar Hoover Letter, FBI (1951)

*Primary Resources*

Letter from Sophie Rosenberg to Mamie Eisenhower, Eisenhower Presidential Library (1953)

Letter from Clyde Miller to Dwight Eisenhower Urging Clemency for the Rosenbergs, Eisenhower Presidential Library (1953)

Response from Dwight Eisenhower to Clyde Miller, Eisenhower Presidential Library (1953)

The Clydebank Blitz, National Records of Scotland (1941)

*Wildcard Resource(s)*
The classic quote from Casablanca, “Here’s looking at you, kid” is ranked #4 on the American Film Institute’s Top 100 Movie Quotes. In fact, four quotes from the movie made it onto the list – Can you guess what the others are?

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“Secrets Revealed” – Curators Alexis and Andrew on SPY’s Pop-Up Exhibit

Summary
Hugh Wilford joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book. Hugh is a professor, author, and leading CIA historian. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

Imperial influences on American intelligence

Key figures in CIA history 

“Wild” Bill Donovan & British influence

Groton School’s impact on CIA leaders

Reflections 

Inherited history

Challenging established narratives

And much, much more … 

Resources 
SURFACE SKIM
*Spotlight Resource*

The CIA: An Imperial History, Hugh Wilford (Basic Books, 2024)
*SpyCasts*

The British Monarchy and Secret Intelligence with Rory Cormac and Richard Aldrich (2024)

The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022)

The 75th Anniversary of the CIA with former Director Robert Gates (2022)

DEEPER DIVE
Books

A Question of Standing: The History of the CIA, R. Jeffreys-Jones (Oxford University Press, 2022) 

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

A Brief History of the CIA, R. Immerman (Wiley, 2014)

Primary Sources 

Sherman Kent Obituary (1986)

Maj. Gen. Edward G. Lansdale to go to South Vietnam (1965) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

Intelligence Remarks of Major General William J. Donovan (1946)

*Wildcard Resource*

Kim (1901) by Rudyard Kipling

As Hugh mentions in this interview, this book was the inspiration behind Kermit Roosevelt Jr.’s nickname, Kim. Harold Adrian Russell Philby, the infamous member of the Cambridge Spy Ring better known as Kim Philby, took inspiration from the same source. 

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“An Imperial History of the CIA” – with Hugh Wilford

Summary
Robert Gates (Website; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to reflect on the 75th Anniversary of the CIA. He served 8 U.S. presidents. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

His reflections on the CIA at 75

How the CIA’s story intersected with his own 

His take on the organization’s strengths and weaknesses 

The complex intl. environment the CIA must now help America navigate

Reflections

Twists of fate

Identity and institutions 

And much, much more…

Episode Notes
Robert M. Gates is the first career officer in the CIA’s history to rise from entry level employee to Director. He spent 27 years at CIA, nine of those at the NSC. More recently, he was the first Secretary of Defense to be asked to remain in office by a newly elected president. In all, he served 8 presidents. 
Wouldn’t you love to know his take on the CIA at 75? Well, we’ve made that happen for you!
He was born in Wichita, Kansas, served in the U.S.A.F. and he received his undergraduate education at William & Mary, his masters from Indiana University, and his doctorate from Georgetown University. He was formerly the President of Texas A&M University and the current Chancellor of William & Mary. 
And…
The academic institutions Dr. Gates has been associated with all have quite different capacities of football stadium: Georgetown University’s Cooper Field can hold 3,750; William & Mary’s Zable Stadium can hold 12,259; Indiana University’s Memorial Stadium can hold 52,626; and Texas A&M’s Kyle Stadium can hold a whopping 102,733. What could we infer about Dr. Gates, college sports, or the United States from this information? Well, that would be thinking like an intelligence analyst.

Quote of the Week
"I've led four very big, very different institutions and like all of them I always saw where places where CIA could be better. But I always loved the place, and I always was proud to work there and proud of the people that I knew…they were probably the smartest, most honest people I've ever met and worked with." – Robert Gates.

Resources
*Andrew’s Recommendation*

“Reorganization in the Intel. Community,” DCI Gates (1992)

Watch this prescient clip on historical naivete, or if you’re hardcore, the entire congressional testimony

*SpyCasts*

“Dealing with Russia” – with Jim Olson (2022)

“I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – with Mike Morell (2021)

*Beginner Resources*

History of CIA, CIA (n.d.) [website]

CIA Director’s Portrait Gallery, CIA (n.d.) [online gallery]

Impact of President G.H.W. Bush’s Foreign Policy, MSNBC (2018) [13 min. video]

At 75, CIA Back Where it Started, Countering Kremlin, G. Myre, NPR (2022) [5 min. audio]

Books

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

Duty, R. Gates (Vintage, 2015) [Def. Sec. memoir]

A World Transformed, Bush & Scowcroft (Knopf, 1998)

From the Shadows, R. Gates (S&S, 1996) [CIA memoir]

Power & Principle, Z. Brzezinski (FS&G, 1983) [Gates was Z.B.’s Special Asst. at the NSC during the Carter era]

Articles

A More Realistic Strategy for the Post-Cold War Era, R. Gates, WaPo (2022)

Creation of the Central Intelligence Group, M. Warner, SII (1996) 

Video

Legacy of the G.H.W.B. Administration, CFR (2016)

Book Talk: From the Shadows, R. Gates, C-Span (1996)

Documentary

The Spymasters, Showtime (2015)
Curatorial

Pocket History of CIA, CIA (2014)
Primary Sources

Biden Speech on 75th Anniversary of the CIA (2022)

Robert Gates on CIA and Openness (1992)

Nomination of Gates to be DCI (1991)

Adm. Roscoe, First CIA Director Dies (1982) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

*Wildcard Resource*

North by Northwest (Hitchcock, 1959)

We hear the first explicit mention of “CIA” in a major movie

 “FBI. CIA. ONI. We’re all in the same alphabet soup.”

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From the Vault: “The 75th Anniversary of the CIA” – with former Director Robert Gates

Introducing the new host of SpyCast, Sasha Ingber! In this week’s episode, Sasha joined Erin in a conversation about her career and the future of the International Spy Museum’s flagship podcast. Now entering it’s 19th year, SpyCast will relaunch on January 14th with brand new episodes, featuring exciting spy stories and the latest intelligence from the shadowy world of espionage. Tune in to learn more about Sasha, our very first female host and the first host with a background in journalism.

As we look forward to our upcoming relaunch, we want to extend our sincere gratitude to those who have had a hand in uplifting SpyCast throughout the past 18 years. In particular, we’d like to thank our outgoing host Dr. Andrew Hammond, whose passion for the history of intelligence and genuine connection with each of our guests shined through each of the 200+ episodes he produced. A special thanks is also due to our friends at N2K Networks for their talented production and unwavering support of the podcast. 

We can’t wait to introduce you all to the new era of SpyCast. See you in the new year! 

Subscribe to Sasha’s Substack, HUMINT, here: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ 
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Introducing the New Host: Sasha Ingber

Former intelligence officer Bryan Stern describes the tradecraft he used on Russian intelligence and military services to rescue an American imprisoned in Russian-occupied Ukraine.
If you liked this episode check out these links to more hostage rescue stories:

SpyCast - James Foley: Journalist, ISIS Hostage, Son – with His Mother Diane Foley

Operación Jaque - The Daring Rescue Mission That Freed 15 Hostages

Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

To learn more about Bryan’s work with Grey Bull you can visit greybullrescue.org. 

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org. 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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How do you fool Russian Intelligence?

Now that President Trump has been inaugurated, what can we expect for the intelligence community? On his first full day in his first term, he visited the CIA to voice support. But he has also displayed deep skepticism and accused spy agencies of undermining him. Beth Sanner is a highly decorated, retired career intelligence officer who briefed Trump with the President’s Daily Brief, a highly classified summary of the US most critical national security threats. She shares her thoughts on what lies ahead.

If you liked this episode, check out:

The President's Book of Secrets - Understanding the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) with David Priess

Hot Topics: Intelligence Challenges in an Election Year

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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How will President Trump handle intelligence in his second term?

Agent Zo was the only female Polish resistance agent to reach London as a courier during WWII and the only female member of Poland's fabled 'Silent Unseen' paratroopers. Yet despite having researched Poland's wartime resistance movement, many of us have never heard of her. Why?

If you liked this episode, check out these links:
Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland
Women Spies of WWII with Ellen McCarthy, Judith L. Pearson, and Erika Robuck
The Danger of the Femme Fatale Narrative
Code Name Madeleine with author Arthur J. Magida

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Agent Zo: The woman who defied the Nazis and Communists

For decades, colleges and universities have been a destination for espionage. Especially in recent years, the use of international students and faculty as spies on American campuses has been particularly daunting. Why do intelligence services, both foreign and domestic, target colleges and universities? And what is there to gain on these campuses? Award-winning journalist Daniel Golden, author of the book Spy Schools, describes the timeless game. 

If you liked this episode, check out these links:

Secret History of History: Color Wars Part II with Catherine McKinley

Chinese Corporate Espionage - The Tale of the Tea Thief with Sarah Rose

Declassified Dessert | How to Make Cuban Spy Ana Montes’ Cheesecake

Queen of Cuba with Peter J. Lapp

SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Campus Cloak-and-Dagger: Spies Targeting American Universities

North Korea is growing more dangerous, but no U.S. administration has been able to crack the code on its leader Kim Jong Un. Now, there’s even less incentive for Kim to negotiate because of the support he’s getting from Russia. So what will Kim do next, and where is he vulnerable? Jung H. Pak, a former CIA analyst who served as the country’s top diplomat for North Korea, takes us inside the mind of one of the world's most opaque leaders.

If you liked this episode, check out these links:

Virtual Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Dr. Jung H. Pak
AI and Emerging Technologies: Intelligence Opportunities & Challenges 

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's next for Kim Jong Un?

SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with historian Bryan Gibson to discuss the tumultuous history of US foreign policy in Iraq. From the end of the Second World War through today, Iraq has remained a key component in the American security calculus. Houghton and Gibson take a deep dive into this period, and Gibson demonstrates how Iraq should be considered an integral Cold War environment alongside such places as Cuba, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.
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Sold Out? Iraq, the CIA, and the Kurds: An Interview with Dr. Bryan Gibson

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