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Message Heard

An ex-Al Qaeda jihadi turned MI6 spy and a former monk turned filmmaker, have been embedded at the heart of conflicts in the Middle East. Together Aimen Dean and Thomas Small unpack the realities of war, fundamentalism and their global implications through first-hand experience.

CONFLICTED

This week on Conflicted, Thomas Small is joined by Patrick McGee, technology reporter and author of the phenomenal new book, Apple in China. Patrick provides an exclusive look at how Apple, in its relentless pursuit of operational excellence, drove a unique form of globalization that profoundly reshaped the economic and geopolitical world.

Thomas and Patrick dissect the story of Apple's pivot from near-bankruptcy to becoming a global superpower, focusing on the often-overlooked genius of CEO Tim Cook - the operations mastermind who built a manufacturing model that, while pioneering, effectively hollowed out US industrial capacity. They explore the critical role of Taiwan’s Foxconn and its founder, Terry Gou, who understood that Apple’s demanding processes were not exploitation, but a unique, fast-track training program that turned China into an advanced manufacturing powerhouse. The conversation follows the narrative from production to consumption, revealing the chaos and extraordinary demand of the Chinese retail market, the political awakening of the company under Xi Jinping's rising power, and the ultimate irony: Apple, the champion of individual liberty, forging a $275 billion partnership with America's foremost geopolitical rival. The episode is a must-listen for understanding the true forces that built the 21st-century global economy.

You can find Patrick @patrickmcgee_

To listen to more episodes like this - and to get lots more benefits upcoming very soon - you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflictedLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CC: Patrick McGee – How Apple Built a Superpower

Another revisited interview from the Conflicted Community Interview archive this week, as we get ready for more Conflicted episodes coming soon… This time, the FULL interview with Hamza Howidy - a Gazan who years ago was forced to flee to Europe, telling us about his experiences and his vision for a post-Hamas Gaza…

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This week, Thomas speaks with Hamza Howidy, a Palestinian activist originally from Gaza now living in exile in Germany. Hamza shares his extraordinary story of growing up under Hamas rule and the constant threat of Israeli military action on the one hand, and the brutality of Hamas on the other.

 

Hamza was forced to leave Gaza due to his involvement in protests against Hamas in 2019 and 2023, taking the dangerous journey across the Mediterranean from Turkey to Europe to do so. Hamza offers a vital and nuanced perspective on life in Gaza, the internal political dynamics between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, and his vision for a future free from Hamas's governance. He candidly discusses the brutal realities faced by those who dissent against Hamas and his own experiences of protest and imprisonment.

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conflicted Revisited… Hamza Howidy – Protest, Exile, and a Post-Hamas Vision of Gaza

This week on Conflicted, Thomas Small is joined by Dr. Emma Ashford, a Senior Fellow at the Stimson Center and an expert on US grand strategy. Emma brings a clear-eyed, realist perspective to the current global debates, arguing that the emerging multipolar world is an opportunity, not a catastrophe, for the United States.

Thomas and Emma dissect the end of the American unipolar moment, exploring whether the US's pivot to global primacy after the Cold War was driven by naive idealism or institutional hubris. They analyze the four competing camps in US foreign policy - from Liberal Order Primacists to America First Hawks - and champion the case for realist restraint as the most pragmatic way forward. The conversation delves into the strategic implications of a truly multipolar world, including how nuclear weapons change the dynamics of great power competition and why the US must retrench from costly, over-leveraged commitments in the Middle East to prioritize competition in Asia.

You can find Emma on X @EmmaMAshford

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflictedLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CC: Emma Ashford – The Collapse of America's Unipolar Moment

This week on Conflicted, Thomas Small is joined by co-host Aimen Dean, who returns to the show to provide a vital debrief on the recent Gaza peace deal. The episode focuses on the fragile ceasefire deal brokered by President Trump, which has brought a temporary halt to hostilities between Israel and Hamas. Aimen is back with his signature, deeply informed analysis, answer your and Thomas’ questions to get beyond the narrative we normally hear about the conflict…

Thomas and Aimen unpack the hidden diplomatic maneuvers behind the deal, including the motivations of key players like Saudi Arabia and France, whose diplomatic efforts set the stage for peace talks by applying intense pressure on the Israeli government. Aimen shares his explosive, albeit speculative, intel on the Israeli airstrike on Doha in September and its profound consequences, including the potential for Saudi Arabia to acquire nuclear weapons as a deterrent. The conversation also delves into the military realities on the ground in Gaza, assessing the successes and failures of the IDF's campaign and the prospects for Hamas's future. The episode offers a sobering look at a peace deal that, while celebrated as a triumph, may be little more than a temporary ceasefire in a region still teetering on the brink.

Want more of Thomas and Aimen? Then you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Gaza Peace Deal: Behind the Scenes with Aimen Dean

Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story is now live to all our dear listeners! 

New episodes of this 6 part Conflicted special documentary series will release every Monday. But if you want to listen to them all right now and ad-free, you'll have to sign up to the Conflicted Community. 

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: ⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠ 

--

When a horrific terrorist attack against children spawned some of the most violent riots in recent UK history, it revealed a sinister undercurrent of racial, religious, and multicultural tensions flowing just beneath the surface of British society. 

Fuelled by voices from the Far-Right, the riots saw a mosque burned and a hotel housing asylum seekers set on fire. But the killer, Axel Rudukabana, was neither muslim or an immigrant. He was British - and known to the security services as a risk.

So what does this attack reveal about the future of terror attacks in the United Kingdom? And why was this attack met with violence rather than anguish? What’s changed in the fabric of our society? And what can we do about it?

In this final episode of 7/7: The Inside Story we explore the existential questions of British identity raised by this series, culminating in an exclusive interview with former Minister of Security, and long time Conflicted listener, Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat. 

Conflicted - 7/7 The Inside Story is produced by Message Heard for Wondery. 

Hosted by Thomas Small. 

This series was written and produced by Harry Stott and Leo Danczak. 

Production Coordinator is Kirsty McLean. 

Sound design and engineering by Alan Leer, Ivan Eastley and Lizzy Andrews.

Music by Tom Biddle.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

7/7: The Inside Story – A New Terror Paradigm • Episode 6

This week on Conflicted, host Thomas Small is joined by Alex Vatanka, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute and a leading scholar of Iranian domestic and foreign policy. Together, they explore the profound impact of the recent 12-Day War between Iran, Israel, and the United States on the Islamic Republic. As an Iranian who has studied the regime for decades, Alex offers a vital look into the power struggles between revolutionary ideology and Iranian nationalism that are now at play in Tehran.

Thomas and Alex discuss the main events of the war, the strategic decisions made by all sides, and the unexpected conclusion that has left Iran in a precarious position. They delve into how the conflict's strategic and economic fallout - from widespread internet blackouts to the regime's military and technological limitations - has humiliated the ruling elite and exposed their vulnerability. The conversation also explores how the war has intensified internal debates, with pragmatic and moderate voices now pushing for political reform and a change in Iran's foreign policy. The episode offers a sobering, yet essential, look at a regime that must now confront its own failures and decide whether to change course or risk total collapse.

You can find Alex on X @AlexVatanka

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflictedLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CC: Alex Vatanka – How has the 12 Day War Changed Iran?

Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story is now live to all our dear listeners! 

New episodes of this 6 part Conflicted special documentary series will release every Monday. But if you want to listen to them all right now and ad-free, you'll have to sign up to the Conflicted Community. 

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: ⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠ 

--

On March 22, 2017, the Westminster Bridge attack killed five people, marking the start of a year which would see five attacks kill dozens of people in the UK. They were all carried out with the most rudimentary means possible, and by singular actors working alone. This fifth episode of Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story tells the story of how we got there…

By the early 2010s, the relationship between the British state and Muslim communities was strained, with the rise of far right groups becoming an ever more pressing issue. And abroad too, things were becoming ever more precarious. In the wake of war in Syria, the terror group ISIS stepped into the vacuum – hundreds of Europeans went to join their cause.

So how would UK counter terrorism respond? Would the Prevent strategy be able to evolve alongside it to stop school children travelling to Syria? And how would this new phenomenon change the nature of terror in the West? We’ll hear from victims of terror, academics and more to find out.

Conflicted - 7/7 The Inside Story is produced by Message Heard for Wondery. 

Hosted by Thomas Small. 

This series was written and produced by Harry Stott and Leo Danczak. 

Production Coordinator is Kirsty McLean. 

Sound design and engineering by Alan Leer, Ivan Eastley and Lizzy Andrews.

Music by Tom Biddle.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

7/7: The Inside Story – The Lone Wolf • Episode 5

Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story is now live to all our dear listeners! 

New episodes of this 6 part Conflicted special documentary series will release every Monday. But if you want to listen to them all right now and ad-free, you'll have to sign up to the Conflicted Community. 

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

--

Just months after the 7/7 bombings, a new terror plot emerged in East London: British-born men were planning to bring down commercial airliners using liquid explosives. It marked another example of the lengths British born terrorists would go to, to attack their fellow citizens.

But what are the profiles of these British born jihadists?

This fourth episode of Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story delves into the complex issue of radicalization, exploring the factors like alienation and racial tensions that contributed to young British Muslims being drawn to extremist ideologies. Speaking with top academics, we’ll hear about the key preachers who fostered as culture of extremism in certain circles across the UK.

But again, we’ll return to what the UK government was doing to counter extremism – most notably around this time, the scaling up of their now infamous Prevent strategy. This policy would become one of the UK’s government’s most controversial counter terrorism initiatives ever.

Conflicted - 7/7 The Inside Story is produced by Message Heard for Wondery. 

Hosted by Thomas Small. 

This series was written and produced by Harry Stott and Leo Danczak. 

Production Coordinator is Kirsty McLean. 

Sound design and engineering by Alan Leer, Ivan Eastley and Lizzy Andrews.

Music by Tom Biddle.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

7/7: The Inside Story – How to Spot a Radical • Episode 4

This week on Conflicted, host Thomas Small is joined by returning guest, Aaron Zelin - the Gloria and Ken Levy Fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and founder of the acclaimed website Jihadology. Following up on their last conversation after the fall of the Assad regime, Aaron gives us an in-depth analysis of the current state of play in Syria as the new transitional government, led by Ahmad al-Shara, attempts to consolidate its power. Since the last time we spoke, Aaron has been on a trip to the new Syria, so he gives us a firsthand look at the complex realities on the ground.

Thomas and Aaron discuss the narratives surrounding the new government, from claims of sectarian massacres to narratives of a burgeoning economic revival. Aaron explains how the violence in places like the coast and the Druze-majority city of Swaida reveals a country still wracked by internal tensions, where revenge, tribal dynamics, and foreign meddling from actors like Iran and Israel continue to complicate the path to stability. They also touch on the delicate dance between the new government and Syria's minorities, including the Kurds, and the implications of the ongoing sanctions waivers and international investment flowing into the country.

You can find Aaron on X at @azelin and look for updates on his incredible website https://jihadology.net/ 

To listen to the full episode, you’ll need to subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

Conflicted is proudly made by Message Heard, a full-stack podcast production agency which uses its extensive expertise to make its own shows such as Conflicted, shows for commissioners such as the BBC, Spotify and Al Jazeera, and powerfully effective podcasts for other companies too. If you’d like to find out how we can help get your organisation’s message heard, visit messageheard.com or drop an email to hello@messageheard.com!

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted

And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflictedLearn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CC: Aaron Zelin – New Syrian Government, Same Old Conflicts?

Conflicted: 7/7 The Inside Story is now live to all our dear listeners! 

New episodes of this 6 part Conflicted special documentary series will release every Monday. But if you want to listen to them all right now and ad-free, you'll have to sign up to the Conflicted Community. 

All the information you need to sign up is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

--

With the smoke still rising from the attacks of 7/7, the race is on to find out who was responsible.

As the authorities sift through the rubble, the emergence of a familiar name sends chills down the backs of UK counter-terror officials. Had they missed something obvious?

In this third episode of Conflicted 7/7: The Inside Story, you’ll hear from the people responsible for leading the investigations in the days following the deadliest attacks on British soil. 

Who had done this? Where were they now? Most importantly, did they still pose a threat?

Terrifyingly, just two weeks later, a copycat attack causes panic across London for a second time. 

Conflicted - 7/7 The Inside Story is produced by Message Heard for Wondery. 

Hosted by Thomas Small. 

This series was written and produced by Harry Stott and Leo Danczak. 

Production Coordinator is Kirsty McLean. 

Sound design and engineering by Alan Leer, Ivan Eastley and Lizzy Andrews.

Music by Tom Biddle.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

7/7: The Inside Story – The Hunt • Episode 3

All Conflicted fans know Aimen’s life story – but what about that of his co-host, Thomas Small? Avid listeners will have heard Thomas talk about his Orthodox Christian faith and his time as a novice monk at a monastery on the Greek island of Mount Athos, but the story of how he got there, and why he decided to leave the brotherhood, is a fascinating tale… This week, Thomas and Aimen switch roles to find out more about Thomas’ spiritual journey.

We’re putting out this episode to all of our dear listeners, because Thomas is releasing a new podcast over on Substack called ‘Life Sentences’. This is Thomas’ attempt to introduce to the world the Church Fathers – the Christian writers, theologians, mystics and divines who wrote in the first 1000 years of Christianity. The podcast sees Thomas read out the texts of the Church Fathers and comment on them as he goes, making them relevant to today. It’s a fascinating listen, and we hope all Conflicted listeners will tune in when the first episode goes live on Sunday July 14th.

You can subscribe and find out more about the podcast through the website at: https://wisdomreadings.substack.com/ 

To listen to more bonus episodes like this one, subscribe to the Conflicted Community. And don’t forget, subscribers can also join our Conflicted Community chatroom, where you can interact with fellow dearest listeners, discuss episodes past and future, get exclusive messages from Thomas and Aimen, ask future Q&A questions and so much more.

All the information you need to sign up to the Conflicted Community is on this link: https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/ 

And finally – Conflicted season 5 goes live next Wednesday on July 17th! Thomas and Aimen have been cooking up a whole new season on… Africa. Tune in next Wednesday for the first episode.

Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MHconflicted
And Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conflicted Community: Aimen Interviews Thomas

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