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BBC Radio 5 Live


What does it mean to be different? Is it how we think? Or how we act? In this BBC podcast, Nicky Campbell explores just that with guests who are extraordinarily different.


Different with Nicky Campbell

At school Nicky, along with many other pupils of Edinburgh Academy, was the victim of vicious abuse from teacher John Brownlee. Nicky didn’t think Brownlee’s crimes would ever be answered, but in March 2024, they went to court. 

John Brownlee is 89 and was declared unfit to stand trial, instead an “examination of the facts” was held to establish the truth. Brownlee was found to have committed 31 charges of assault and assault to injury relating to incidents spanning from 1967 to 1991, as well as a composite charge of cruel unnatural treatment across the 20 years he worked at the school.

Now Nicky sits down with two other survivors who gave evidence, Frazer Macdonald and Neil MacDonald, and Scottish journalist Marcello Mega. They discuss how the story of the historic abuse at Edinburgh Academy has unfolded, what it was like to be in court and the consequences of childhood abuse.

WARNING: This episode contains descriptions of physical abuse, suicidal thoughts and strong language

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound: Ailsa Rochester

Our Day in Court: The Brownlee Trial

Jarren Rocks tells Nicky about creating Seance AI, a programme that allows us to speak to people we have lost. They discuss the rise of grief tech - how it can be a great tool to helpfully grieve, but also it's dangers. They discuss dystopian futures v utopian futures, how AI can change everything and the complexities of owning an image that can be used to create...anything.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound: Tom Hinckley

AI Ghosts

Jody Plauché joins Nicky to tell him a remarkable story of survival, revenge and family. At 11 Jody was groomed then kidnapped by his karate teacher Jeff Doucet, an America wide manhunt ensued and Jody’s attacker was apprehended, and Jody returned home safely. But the story didn’t end there - Jeff was returned to his home state for trial, where news cameras were waiting, but so was Jody’s father who shot and killed Jeff.

Jody and Nicky talk about forgiveness, surviving abuse and his relationship with his father.
WARNING: This episode contains descriptions of child abuse and violence that some listeners may find upsetting.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound: Craig Edmondson

A Dad's Revenge Killing

In the first series of Different Nicky spoke to journalist Alex Renton about the abuse that he saw and experienced at his school, the Edinburgh Academy, in the 1970s. Since the episode, ‘Edgar’ was published, many more victims have come forward, and the case against the alleged living abuser continues.
After that episode Nicky received many emails, one of which was from the daughter of the man who abused him, Hamish Dawson. Nicky travels to Edinburgh to meet Jenny Pearson to discuss her childhood, and how hearing her father’s name on the radio shook her world. She talks about healing, volunteering to speak to her father’s victims and thriving despite the legacy her father left behind.

WARNING: This episode contains bad language, descriptions of child abuse and violence that some listeners may find upsetting.

If you’ve been affected by the topics discussed, you can find more information and support on the BBC Action Line website: http://bbc.co.uk/actionline
Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound: Craig Edmondson

Despite - Radio Times Moment of the Year Nominee

Journalist Freddy McConnell sits down with Nicky to talk about making his documentary Seahorse, how the trans conversation has changed in the UK and why he tried to get the law changed so he could be on his children's birth certificates as parent or father.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Tom Hinckley

A Trans Dad’s Experience

Benita Alexander is an Emmy winning NBC journalist who was sent to interview a surgeon to the stars. Dr Paulo Macchiarini was rumoured to be up for a Nobel prize and his groundbreaking trachea surgery was changing medicine. Within a year Benita and Paulo were engaged and he arranged a star studded wedding…but weeks before the big day everything came crashing down. The wedding was a fabrication, but so was Paulo’s whole career and his patients were dying.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester

Celebrity Surgeon Scam

Noah Leigh is an epidemiologist by day, with an unusual hobby: he runs not-for-profit the Paranormal Investigators of Milwaukee. PIM use scientific methods to catalogue people’s experiences with ghosts, poltergeists and everything in between. He tells Nicky why science and the paranormal don’t have to be in opposition and how he considers himself “sceptically optimistic”.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Assistant Producer: Mansi Vithlani
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester, Mansi Vithlani

Scientific Ghostbuster

Consolee Nishimwe was 14 when the civil unrest in Rwanda reached boiling point, Consolee’s father and three younger brothers were murdered, and she was kidnapped for being Tutsi, held and tortured for 3 months. When the genocide ended Consolee returned to school, and many of the perpetrators returned to her community. In writing her book “Tested to the Limit” Consolee became the first Rwandan woman to publish an account of her experiences, including the sexual violence so many women endured during the genocide.

She speaks to Nicky about trauma, loss and healing.

WARNING: This episode contains mentions of violence, rape and torture.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Assistant Producer: Mansi Vithlani
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester, Mansi Vithlani

Rwandan Genocide - 30 Years Later

When Arun Dohle was weeks old he was adopted by a wealthy German couple, who took him from his home country of India. As an adult he began a search for his parents which lead to a battle in the Bombay High Court, an estrangement with his adoptive parents and the founding of ACT - Against Child Trafficking

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Assistant Producer: Mansi Vithlani
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester, Mansi Vithlani

Against Adoption

When author Tracy King was 12 her father was killed on the streets of their Midlands council estate, this lead her family to be further seduced by born-again Christianity and her being exorcised when her trauma was misdiagnosed as “demons”. 

She tells Nicky how a second hand copy of a book by astrophysicist and critical thinker Carl Sagan changed her world and led her to science.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester

Evangelical Christian to Science Writer

Author and evolutionary biologist Lucy Cooke tells Nicky what the world of science got wrong because it was looking at the world through a patriarchal lens. From the amazing bonobo apes bonding through sapphic intimacy, to the menopausal whales leading their pods, to ducks evolving to choose which male fertilises her egg. 

WARNING: This episode contains strong language and adult themes.

Produced by Audio Always
Producer: Ailsa Rochester
Editor: Jo Meek
Sound Design: Ailsa Rochester

The Female of the Species

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