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The New York Times

“Hard Fork” is a show about the future that’s already here. Each week, journalists Kevin Roose and Casey Newton explore and make sense of the latest in the rapidly changing world of tech. 

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Hard Fork

This week, we’re talking about the new A.I.-generated video tools and social media feeds from Google, Meta and OpenAI. Is this how A.I. is going to cure cancer? Then, the psychotherapist Gary Greenberg stops by to discuss his recent New Yorker essay about treating ChatGPT as a patient, and why what he saw left him unsettled. And finally, all aboard the Hot Mess Express! It’s time to rate the messiest stories in tech.

 

Guests:

Gary Greenberg • , writer and psychotherapist

 

Additional Reading:

OpenAI Launches a Social NetworkOpenAI’s New Video App Is Jaw-Dropping (for Better and Worse)Putting ChatGPT on the CouchWhat My Daughter Told ChatGPT Before She Took Her LifeChatbots Can Go Into a Delusional Spiral. Here’s How It Happens.YouTube Settles Trump Lawsuit Over Account Suspension for $24.5 Million
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Sora and the Infinite Slop Feeds + ChatGPT Goes to Therapy + Hot Mess Express

This week, an eye-popping $100 billion deal between OpenAI and Nvidia — along with an announcement about the construction of five new American data centers — has us re-examining our predictions of an A.I. bubble. Then, we try to make sense of the Trump administration’s changes to the H-1B visa program, which generated mixed reactions from tech leaders; the immigration expert Jeremy Neufeld joins us to explain why the new $100,000 visa fee is likely to hurt start-ups, universities and the broader U.S. economy. And finally, we take a look at one of the latest trends sweeping TikTok: planning for a biblical Rapture.

Guests:

Jeremy Neufeld • , director of immigration policy at the Institute for Progress

Additional Reading:

Nvidia to Invest $100 Billion in OpenAIOpenAI to Join Tech Giants in Building 5 New Data Centers in U.S.$100,000 Per Employee: How the H-1B Visa Fee Could Reshape Work ForcesA $100,000 Per Worker Visa Fee Tips the Balance to Big TechThe Rapture Was Predicted to Happen Today. TikTok Has Some Advice.

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Great A.I. Build-Out + H-1B Visa Chaos + TikTok Braces for the Rapture

This week, we discuss the assassination of Charlie Kirk, freedom of speech and the terrifying new reality of extremely online violence. Then The Times’s David Yaffe-Bellany brings us inside the blockbuster New York Times investigation into a $2 billion investment in Trump’s crypto company World Liberty Financial and a controversial deal to send the most powerful A.I. chips to the United Arab Emirates. And finally, it’s time to round up This Week in A.I.

 

Guests:

David Yaffe-Bellany, • New York Times technology reporter covering the crypto industry

 

Additional Reading:

Trump Administration Wields Its Full Toolbox to Bring Media to HeelSocial Platforms Duck Blame for Inflaming Divisions Before Charlie Kirk’s DeathIn Giant Deals, U.A.E. Got Chips, and Trump Team Got Crypto RichesA Teen Was Suicidal. ChatGPT Was the Friend He Confided In.OpenAI’s Risky Step to Protect Teens
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Charlie Kirk and Online Rage + Inside Trump’s Chip Flip + This Week in A.I.

Apple’s yearly iPhone event took place this week, and it left us asking, Is Apple losing the juice? We break down all the new products the company announced and discuss where it goes from here. Then, Eliezer Yudkowsky, one of the most fascinating people in A.I., has a new book coming out: “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies.” He joins us to make the case for why A.I. development should be shut down now, long before we reach superintelligence, and how he thinks that could happen.

Guests:

Eliezer Yudkowsky, founder of Machine Intelligence Research Institute and a co-author of “If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies”

Additional Reading: 

A.I.’s Prophet of Doom Wants to Shut It All DownAI as Normal Technology, revisitedApple’s misunderstood crossbody iPhone strap might be the best I’ve seen
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Are We Past Peak iPhone? + Eliezer Yudkowsky on A.I. Doom

This week, we check in on the state of artificial intelligence in education. We talk with a co-founder of Alpha Schools, MacKenzie Price, about how her private K-12 schools are using A.I. to generate personalized lesson plans and enabling teachers to spend their time motivating rather than teaching students. Then, the Princeton historian D. Graham Burnett joins us to discuss the existential threat that A.I. poses to the traditional humanities degree and why he believes we’ll see thousands of new schools emerge outside the university system to carry on the exploration of what it means to be a person in the world. And finally, we hear directly from students who are on the front line of technological change.

Guests:

MacKenzie Price • , co-founder of Alpha Schools
D. Graham Burnett • , historian of science and technology at Princeton University

Additional Reading:

A.I.-Driven Education: Founded in Texas and Coming to a School Near YouWill the Humanities Survive Artificial Intelligence?OpenAI and Microsoft Bankroll New A.I. Training for TeachersWelcome to Campus. Here’s Your ChatGPT.

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

A.I. School Is in Session: Two Takes on the Future of Education

President Trump announced this week that the U.S. government, in a highly unusual deal, had agreed to take a 10 percent stake in the chip maker Intel, and that he was considering similar investments in other companies. We discuss why Trump cares so much about Intel, what the government is trying to accomplish with this deal, and how people in Silicon Valley and elsewhere are reacting. Then Waymo’s co-chief executive Tekedra Mawakana joins us in the studio to discuss the company’s strategy for expanding its driverless car service to Miami, D.C. and the snowy Northeast. And finally, we introduce a new segment where we run through the most surprising technology projects the Trump family is getting involved in.

Guests:

Tekedra Mawakana • , co-chief executive of Waymo.

Additional Reading: 

Intel Agrees to Sell U.S. a 10% Stake in Its BusinessFirst Lady Melania Trump Launches Nationwide Presidential AI Challenge
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Intel’s New Deal + Waymo C.E.O. Tekedra Mawakana on Scaling Driverless Cars + Trumps in Tech

Note: This episode contains sexually explicit music.

This week, the whole tech world seemed to be asking: Are we in an A.I. bubble? We’ll explore the cases for and against, including who we think stands to lose most. Then we’re joined by the journalist Jeff Horwitz to discuss his blockbuster reporting about an internal Meta policy document that permit the company’s chatbots to engage in romantic role-playing with children. And finally, Casey introduces Kevin to a shocking new TikTok trend.

 

Guests:

Jeff Horwitz, • investigative technology reporter for Reuters

Additional Reading:

My Dinner With AltmanCompanies Are Pouring Billions Into A.I. It Has Yet to Pay OffMeta’s A.I. Rules Have Let Bots Hold ‘Sensual’ Chats With ChildrenWhy Is TikTok Overflowing With A.I. Country Music Erotica?
 

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Is This an A.I. Bubble? + Meta’s Missing Morals + TikTok Shock Slop

OpenAI spent the week responding to outcry from users who miss the behavior of the old ChatGPT, before the latest flagship model was released.

We discuss the criticism, why it caught the company by surprise and what it indicates about the deepening emotional relationships that people are forming with chatbots.

Then, Aravind Srinivas, the chief executive of Perplexity AI, joins us to discuss his company’s new artificial intelligence-powered browser, Comet; his company’s bid to buy Google Chrome; and what the future of the internet looks like when users turn to A.I. assistants to browse the web for them. Finally, to cap it all off, we rate the craziest tech stories of the week in our game Hot Mess Express.

Guests:

 • Aravind Srinivas, chief executive of 
Perplexity AI • .

Additional Reading:

Chatbots Can Go Into a Delusional Spiral. Here’s How It Happens.Three Big Lessons From the GPT-5 BacklashA.I. Start-Up Perplexity Offers to Buy Google’s Chrome Browser for $34.5 BillionElon Musk Threatens to Sue Apple Over Claims It Favors OpenAIU.S. Government to Take Cut of Nvidia and AMD A.I. Chip Sales to China

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

GPT-5 Backlash + Perplexity C.E.O. Aravind Srinivas on the Browser Wars + Hot Mess Express

This week, OpenAI released its much-anticipated flagship model, GPT-5. We break down what we know about the upgrade, drawing from our initial testing and a special news briefing with Sam Altman. Then, we explain why we were underwhelmed by Amazon’s new Alexa+, which is powered by generative A.I., and take our feedback to Daniel Rausch, vice president of Alexa and Echo, who helps us understand why powering Alexa with L.L.M. capabilities is a major computer science challenge.

Guests:

 • Daniel Rausch, Amazon vice president of Echo and Alexa

Additional reading:

OpenAI Aims to Stay Ahead of Rivals With New GPT-5 TechnologyAmazon Unveils Alexa+, Powered by Generative A.I.

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Also, you can still get a special-edition “Hard Fork” hat! For a limited time, you’ll receive one when you purchase an annual New York Times Audio subscription for the first time (U.S. only). Go to nytimes.com/hardforkhat.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

GPT-5 Arrives, and We Try the New Alexa+

This week, we look at the fallout from a sweeping internet age-verification law that went into effect in Britain. We explain why age restrictions are suddenly popping up all over the internet — and how some might create more problems than they solve. Then Matthew Prince, chief executive of Cloudflare, returns to the show to discuss his company’s new plan to help publishers fight back against A.I. scrapers and potentially to create a new online marketplace for quality content in the process. Finally, we round up some headlines from around the tech world in the latest round of HatGPT.

Guests:

 • Matthew Prince, chief executive of Cloudflare

Additional Reading:

Supreme Court Upholds Texas Law Limiting Access to PornographyThe U.K.’s age gates are coming to AmericaCloudflare Introduces Default Blocking of A.I. Data Scrapers

Also, you can still get a special-edition “Hard Fork” hat! For a limited time, you’ll receive one when you purchase an annual New York Times Audio subscription for the first time (U.S. only). Go to nytimes.com/hardforkhat.

We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

Age-Gating the Internet + Cloudflare Takes On A.I. Scrapers + HatGPT

Telegram’s founder, Pavel Durov, was arrested in France and charged with several crimes connected to his operation of the platform. We’ll tell you what the charges against him mean for the internet. Then Gov. Kathy Hochul, Democrat of New York, joins us to discuss why she wants to ban phones statewide in public schools. And finally, Kevin has been using secret codes to try to change what A.I. chatbots think of him. We get to the bottom of whether it is possible to manipulate A.I. outputs.

This episode contains discussion of suicide connected to youth mental health. If you are having thoughts of suicide, call or text 988 to reach the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline or go to SpeakingOfSuicide.com/resources for a list of additional resources.

Guest:

 • Kathy Hochul, governor of New York

Additional Reading:

How Pavel Durov, Telegram’s Founder, Went From Russia’s Mark Zuckerberg to Wanted ManKathy Hochul’s ‘Big’ Plan to Ban Phones in Schools
We want to hear from you. Email us at hardfork@nytimes.com. Find “Hard Fork” on YouTube and TikTok.

Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.

The Telegram Problem + Gov. Kathy Hochul on School Phone Bans + Kevin's A.I. Reputation Rehab

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