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BBC World Service

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected. 
 
Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. 
 
Our guests come from every corner of the globe: from Burundi to Beverly Hills, New Zealand to North Korea, Rajasthan to Rio. And their stories can be about anything: tales of survival, humour, resilience and intrigue. From the mind-blowing account of the Japanese man trapped in his own reality TV show, to the Swedish women rescued from lions by a tin of spam. It’s life’s wild side, in stereo. 

Lives Less Ordinary is brought to you by the team behind Outlook, the home of true life storytelling on BBC World Service radio for nearly 60 years.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Lives Less Ordinary

The inventor of the World Wide Web, Tim Berners-Lee, on the unique upbringing that inspired a tech revolution. 

Tim Berners-Lee has well and truly changed the world. For under-35s it's almost impossible to imagine what life might have been like without him. But when he launched the World Wide Web in December 1990, no-one knew the success it would become - and most struggled to understand why the world needed the Web at all. Tim, however, grew up steeped in the knowledge that computers held the key to the future. His parents worked on the Ferranti Mark 1 - the world's first commercial computer - and raised Tim on a diet of science demonstrations and electronic tinkering. His mother Mary Lee was the family's driving force, encouraging an eclectic mix of logical thinking, creative problem-solving, camping trips and a spirit of 'watchful negligence' - all of which gave the introverted young Tim the confidence to think outside the box and find solutions for himself. 

So when he went to work at CERN in Geneva in his late-20s and saw how computers struggled to talk to one another, he was perfectly placed to imagine and build what would become the World Wide Web.

Tim's vision for the Web was built around positivity - where anyone with access to an internet connection could freely share ideas with anyone else. He knew that the key to its success was universality, so he made the decision to give the Web away for free. As a result, Tim Berners-Lee is not a billionaire. But he says that's just the way he likes it, making him free to go for walks and swims in the Serpentine in London without being recognised. It's not all been good news though. 

In the 35 years since its creation, the Web has been used as a base to build social media and AI empires that Tim says don't always act in our best interests. He fears the addictive effects of social media apps on children's mental health, and has decided to stop using Instagram as he was too often getting hooked on the feed. Tim says that his latest mission is to build a form of pro-human AI as an antidote to systems owned by Big Tech, and aims to help people reclaim control of their personal data so that the Web can, once again, belong to everyone. 

Presenter: Jo Fidgen
Producer: Anna Lacey

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else's life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Tim Berners-Lee: The man who dreamed of a World Wide Web

Jack Horner inspired a character in Jurassic Park after the dino discovery of a lifetime.

Jack has been fascinated by fossils for as long as he can remember. He spent his childhood digging around in the fossil-rich earth of Montana, as his father was involved in the gravel-extraction business. By the age of eight he was rewarded with his first big treasure – a real piece of dinosaur bone. As Jack's fossil collection grew, so did his passion for palaeontology. But he struggled at school, where severe undiagnosed dyslexia led his teachers and parents to write him off as lazy and spoiled. He pushed on regardless and in 1978 made a life-changing find: the world's first baby-dinosaur skeletons, and evidence that dinosaur parents cared for and raised their young like many modern birds. The discovery made front-page headlines around the world, and led to awards and accolades Jack had never thought possible. It also brought him to the attention of author Michael Crichton, who based a lead character in his hit book, Jurassic Park, on Jack. And when the call came from Stephen Spielberg to come and advise on the movie version, his fame as a dinosaur expert hit a whole new level. Jack was then himself inspired by the movie, and supervised one of his students in extracting DNA from a T. rex. It didn't work – but it led to his current 'Dino Chicken' project, where he is discovering how to bring ancient dinosaur features back to life in modern birds so he can finally have a pet dinosaur of his own.

Presenter: Asya Fouks
Producer: Anna Lacey and Lucy Davies

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

The baby-dinosaur hunter who ended up in Hollywood

In the chaos of the helicopter evacuation from Saigon in April 1975, Doan Hoàng Curtis' sister was somehow left behind. It would haunt her family for years. 

Doan was just three years old when her family made it onto one of the last helicopters to leave Saigon as troops from the communist North took over the city and the Vietnam war came to an end. Her father was a major for the South Vietnamese air force and if he'd stayed in Saigon he could have been killed. Leaving Vietnam was an extraordinary moment for the family, but one that would have a deep and lasting impact on them, because somehow, in the turmoil of the evacuation, Doan's 17-year-old half-sister Van was left behind. It would take Van six years and a treacherous journey via Thailand before she could be reunited with her family, who ended up settling in the United States. Doan says the anger and confusion of why her sister was left behind has defined her whole life. Now an award-winning documentary filmmaker living in the US, Doan returned to Vietnam in 2005 with her family - including her sister Van - to make a documentary and confront the past. It's called Oh Saigon: A War in the family.

News report of Fall of Saigon came from CBS news.

Presenter: Mobeen Azhar
Producer: June Christie 

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

The escape from Vietnam that tore my family apart

Abbas Alizada was eight when he first saw a Bruce Lee film. He fell in love with kung-fu, copying his hero’s moves and his look before an online post shot him to overnight fame.

Abbas was born in Kabul in 1993, the youngest of nine siblings. His family are Hazara, an ethnic minority who have historically faced violence and persecution in Afghanistan, and were partcularly targeted when the Taliban first took power in 1996. During this time, music and movies were banned, and Abbas’ family kept a low profile until the US-led invasion toppled the regime in the early 2000s.

With restrictions gone, Abbas began to see movies for the first time, on a television his uncle would rent for the family. He was nine when he first saw Bruce Lee in kung fu classic Enter The Dragon. He was transfixed by the actor’s kung fu skills, and decided that day that he wanted to be a martial artist. As a teenager, he was enrolled in a local martial arts academy, but when his parents could no longer afford the fees, he continued training by himself at home. For years, he spent hours a day mastering his hero's moves in his basement, watching all of Bruce Lee's movies in slow motion, even teaching himself how to use the iconic fighter's trademark nunchucks. 

Abbas was eighteen years old when a friend first pointed out to him that not only could he kick like Bruce Lee, but that he bore an uncanny resemblance to the martial arts legend too. Abbas cut his hair to look like the Fist of Fury star and when his friend uploaded a photo of him posing like Bruce Lee to the internet, it went viral overnight. National and international media descended on the Alizada household to interview this young lookalike with his self-taught mastery of kung fu. Soon, Abbas was being flown all over the Middle East and Asia to star to star in movies, film commercials and perform at festivals. 

Abbas married, had kids, and was riding high. But when the Taliban returned to Kabul in 2021, he knew he had a target on his back. Soon, Abbas would be forced to drop everything - and find a way out. 

Presenter: Asya Fouks
Producer: Zoe Gelber

Clips: Enter the Dragon / Warner Bros., Concord Productions

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784

You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Enter the new dragon: the Bruce Lee of Afghanistan

This extra edition of Lives Less Ordinary is to remember the remarkable conservationist and primatologist Jane Goodall, who has died at 91. The life she lived alongside great apes revolutionised the way we see them – and ourselves. 
It was 65 years ago that a young Jane left England to travel to the Gombe Stream National Park on the shores of Lake Tanganika. She was there to observe chimps in their natural habitat – and her discoveries were game-changing. It was the first time anyone had seen a non-human animal using tools – forcing a rethink of our relationship to them, the natural habitat, and what it is to be human. 
In this revealing interview from 2016 she talks about how her work was embedded in a lifelong fascination with creatures great and small. 

Presenter: Jo Fidgen
Producers: June Christie and Edgar Maddicott

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Jane Goodall: In her own words

Vamarr Hunter always felt a special bond with the owner of his favourite local bakery — but never imagined she could be his long-lost birth mother. 

Vamarr loved to visit the bakery in his home neighbourhood in Chicago, enjoying the cakes, pies and cookies, but also the warm company of the owner, Lenore Lindsey. 

Vamarr had had a tricky time growing up, and only discovered he was adopted when he was in his thirties. Initially he had no interest in searching for his birth mother, but years later a TV programme inspired him to start the hunt. He eventually got some help from a genealogy expert, who made an amazing discovery: his birth mother lived just a few blocks away.

Vamarr and his birth mother agreed to speak on the phone — but this was when things got truly extraordinary. Vamarr couldn't work out why the much-anticipated phone call was coming from his local bakery, and why he recognised the voice on the other end. It took a few seconds for Lenore and Vamarr to realise that they were mother and son — finally reunited after 48 years — and that they'd already known each for many years.

They instantly became very close, and Vamarr started coming round to the bakery after work to spend time with Lenore. He began helping out with some of the baking, and, after Lenore's health made it difficult for her to keep managing the bakery, took over running it for her. Vamarr discovered that he loves baking just as much as Lenore does.

Presenter: Mobeen Azhar
Producer: Rebecca Vincent

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Sweet surprise: I found my birth mother in my local bakery

Once a homeless teen in Mumbai, now Zarna Garg’s a top comedian, touring with Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.

Zarna Garg was in her 40s living in New York City when she went to an open mic night for the very first time. Before that, she’d never even heard of stand up comedy and was only there, resentfully, at the insistence of her children who were convinced their mother would be a success. The kids were right, and Zarna – who was desperate for a new career – found her calling in comedy. 

Zarna has spent her whole life reinventing herself. Born in Mumbai to a wealthy Indian family, she was kicked out by her controlling father when she refused an arranged marriage. At the time, Zarna was a teenager and grieving the sudden death of her mother to illness. 

Overnight, Zarna became homeless, relying on the kindness of friends for a place to stay. After more than a year of instability, she succumbed to her father’s demands and agreed to be married. But just before the wedding, Zarna received a visa and arrived in the US – in pursuit of happiness and love, on her own terms. 

She supported herself through law school, became an unwitting pioneer of online dating, and raised a family. But decades later, Zarna was spiralling and rethinking all her life choices. Describing herself as a “manic, deranged Manhattan housewife,” she began various business ventures that “failed spectacularly.” When Zarna was ridiculed at a fancy dinner party by other guests – her husband came to her defence, declaring to the room, “one day you’re going to find your thing and you’re going to become unstoppable.”

It was this crisis that led Zarna to become a stand up comic. After her clips started going viral online, Zarna caught the attention of some of the biggest stars of the entertainment world, and even got her own comedy special on TV. 

Zarna’s written a book called This American Woman: A One-in-a-Billion Memoir.

Presenter: Mobeen Azhar
Producer: Maryam Maruf and Helen Fitzhenry

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Zarna Garg: The rise of an ‘unstoppable’ comedy star

Ron Bishop was 14 when he says police forced him to make false statements on the witness stand during a 1984 murder trial. His testimony helped sentence three innocent teenagers to life in prison.

In 1983 Ron's world was turned upside down when his best friend, 14-year-old DeWitt Duckett, was shot and killed in a corridor of their school, Harlem Park Junior High in West Baltimore. Ron gave the police a full description of the lone shooter who had confronted them, but says that the police soon started to put pressure on him to identify three other Black teenagers from their neighbourhood as the assailants - Alfred Chestnut, Ransom Watkins and Andrew Stewart. Ron insisted that it wasn't them, but says the detective became so threatening that he feared for his safety, and that of his family. Alone in the interrogation room, Ron ended up signing a witness statement identifying the three 16-year-olds.

On the day of the trial Ron says he felt "trapped" into giving the same false testimony, along with some other child witnesses, even though he knew it wasn't true. All three defendants were sentenced to life in prison for felony murder.

Ron says his life was overshadowed by intense guilt over the lies he told in court as a 14-year-old, but he remained too intimidated to speak out, and distrustful of the system he saw as deeply corrupt. It would take an extraordinary 36 years before a state investigation fully exonerated the men, now known as the Harlem Park Three. Ron was at long last able to speak the truth about the actions of the police towards him. 

He says he will never stop thinking about the impact his false testimony had on so many lives, but is happy finally to have helped free the three men.

This episode contains a reference to suicide. If you are suffering distress or despair and need support, you could speak to a health professional, or an organisation that offers support. Details of help available in many countries can be found at Befrienders Worldwide. www.befrienders.org

The news archive in this episode was from WJZ-TV Baltimore, WBAL-TV 11 Baltimore, and NBC News.

Presenter: Jo Fidgen 
Producer: Rebecca Vincent

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

I sent three innocent teenagers to prison for life

Cesar Millan is known for training dogs on TV. What’s less well-known is that he migrated illegally to the US from Mexico and slept rough before making his name. 

For the past two decades, Cesar Millan has appeared on television sets around the world. His hit shows centre on his incredible ability to rehabilitate dogs with behavioural issues like aggression or anxiety. Cesar’s preternatural talent has earned him the moniker ‘The Dog Whisperer’. When he was younger living in the Mexican state of Sinaloa, he had a less flattering nickname — El Perrero — which translates to "the dog boy". It was given to him by kids who would bully him for walking around the city followed by a pack of stray dogs. 

But dogs have always surrounded Cesar’s life, including those he grew up with on his family farm. When he was 13 Cesar says he heard a mystical voice that told him he would become the world’s best dog trainer. That was the impetus for him to make the treacherous and illegal crossing from Mexico to the US. Once in California, Cesar was homeless and slept under a bridge. He caught the attention of a national newspaper because he would walk large numbers of dogs to earn money; in the interview, he announced that he wanted a television show to teach people about dogs. That show would eventually be The Dog Whisperer, a smash hit on National Geographic. On it, Cesar would not only use techniques to help disobedient dogs, but he’d focus on getting their owners to be more calm, assertive and give the dogs proper exercise. 

Cesar ended up travelling the world giving seminars to arena-sized crowds and writing several bestselling books. But, at the pinnacle of his career, his mental health suffered and he tried to take his own life. He’s also been the subject of controversy, with critics questioning some of his dog-training approaches. 

Throughout the years, Cesar has been helped by various dogs that he calls "the angels who you can see". Especially two pitbulls called Junior and Daddy who he calls his companions and spiritual guides.

This episode contains a reference to suicide. If you are suffering distress or despair and need support, you could speak to a health professional, or an organisation that offers support. Details of help available in many countries can be found at Befrienders Worldwide. www.befrienders.org

Presenter: Asya Fouks
Producer: Saskia Collette

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys — spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Cesar Millan: The ‘dog boy’ who became the Dog Whisperer

How a romantic getaway ended in disaster.

Dutch financier Annette Herfkens boarded Vietnam Airlines Flight 474 in November 1992, embarking on what was meant to be a romantic break with her fiancé Willem van der Pas or ‘Pasje’. But fate had other plans. Midway through the flight from Ho Chi Minh City to the coastal resort of Nha Trang, the Soviet-built Yakovlev Yak-40 encountered severe weather and slammed into a remote, fog-shrouded mountain ridge in the dense Vietnamese jungle. The impact was catastrophic, killing all 30 other passengers and crew on board, including Annette's beloved Pasje.
 
Incredibly, Annette emerged as the sole survivor of the crash, defying odds in one of the most amazing real-life tales of endurance. Thrown from the wreckage with devastating injuries—including a collapsed lung, a broken jaw, two fractured legs, and a dozen fractures in her hips—she found herself stranded amid the twisted metal and bodies of her fellow travellers. Unable to walk or even crawl far, she endured eight gruelling days in the unforgiving wilderness, battling excruciating pain, dehydration, and the psychological torment of her loss. With no food, she sustained herself solely on rainwater collected from the jungle foliage, her will to live fuelled by sheer determination and fleeting moments of hope that a rescue would come. 

Annette’s book is called Turbulence: A True Story of Survival.

Presenter: Asya Fouks
Producer: Edgar Maddicott

Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. 

Our latest mini-series Hold Fast! tells the incredible true story of how The Avontuur was locked down at sea for 188 days during the Covid-19 pandemic, with 15 people on board.

Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.
 
Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784
 
You can read our privacy notice here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Sole survivor: Eight days in the jungle after my plane crashed

ANC spy Sue Dobson infiltrated the South African government. Then her cover was blown. 

After training, Sue had got a job within the government's propaganda unit, and she was feeding back good intelligence to her ANC handlers. Then she got a phone call. The security services were on to her, and she was a long way from safety. 

Presenter: India Rakusen
Producer: Harry Graham
Editor: Deiniol Buxton
Sound design: Joel Cox

Rewind: The spy who wanted to bring down apartheid Part 2

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