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Eric Siu and Neil Patel

Neil Patel and Eric Siu bring you daily ACTIONABLE digital marketing lessons that they've learned through years of being in the trenches. Whether you have a new website or you're an established business, you'll learn the latest SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization and general online marketing strategies that work today from people that actually practice marketing and operate business. Approaching 100M downloads with 2,500+ episodes, you're sure to find something that will help you grow faster. Also don't forget to subscribe to our Marketing School Youtube channel to get more marketing goodness.

Marketing School - Digital Marketing and Online Marketing Tips

In this episode, Neil and Eric tackle whether AI is making us dumber and what that means for the next generation of marketers. They discuss falling literacy and math scores, why kids need strong critical thinking before using AI, and how agentic workflows change marketing team structures. You’ll hear practical insights on balancing AI and human creativity, plus why real traction and case studies still win clients in an AI-driven world.

Timestamps
(00:00) Is AI making us dumber?
(01:00) Reading and math scores in decline
(03:00) Building intelligence before using AI
(07:00) Agentic workflows and marketing headcount
(10:00) Real-world ROI: case studies, tools, and team balance

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

AI Is Making You Dumber (study)

In this episode, Eric and Neil talk about how AI companies are outbidding everyone for elite marketers, why many would join an AI rocket ship if starting today, and the reality of 996 work cultures. They debate “hire fast, fire fast,” share real exec hit rates and expectation-setting, and double down on why sales follow-up beats first-touch wins. They also cover AI-powered outbound (doing work upfront to earn meetings), an AI artist’s $3M record deal, AI podcast farms flooding feeds, and why human connection and events will matter even more amid the AI content surge. 

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) AI companies scooping top marketers & comp packages
(02:00) Lindy, 996 expectations, and why AI roles are irresistible
(03:50) Hire fast, fire fast? Real exec success rates & culture fit
(10:54) Follow-up > first touch: email cadence, value-first outbound
(15:00) AI artist $3M deal, podcast farms, and why human connection wins

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads.
Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who
truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and
Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top
10 Marketer.

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOSTS 

Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

FREE RESOURCES (dont change)
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

AI Companies Are Taking a Lot of The Good Marketers

In this episode, Neil and Eric dive into the psychology of framing, from how child-mortality data shifts when reframed to the power of decoy pricing in guiding customer choices. They discuss why consistent brand building compounds most after 10 years, share lessons from Single Grain’s reset, and explore how SEO, referrals, and content mix evolve over time. Plus, they highlight tools, strategies, and the long-term mindset marketers need for lasting results.

TIMESTAMPS

 (00:00) Framing effect explained (03:00) Decoy pricing case studies (05:01) Single Grain reset story (08:01) SEO and referrals mix (10:27) Why marketing compounds after 10 years

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

 Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOSTS

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

FREE RESOURCES

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

Why Framing Is Everything

In this episode, Eric and Neil unpack Google AI Mode’s Chrome integration and how 100M MAUs could ignite a new distribution flywheel—fueling ads, partnerships, and startup pressure. They compare Google’s gen video/image capabilities, debate the “free subsidized by ads” model, and analyze YouTube’s latest updates: TV-style ad swaps, title tests, AI Inspirations, collabs, dubbing, and creator discovery. They also reveal why topic choice beats flashy hooks, share a multilingual trend-mining workflow, explore agent tooling, and spotlight Carrot.ai.

TIMESTAMPS

 (00:00) Google AI Mode, Chrome rollout, and the ads flywheel (02:45) Google’s gen video/image edge and “free” strategy (05:45) Big YouTube changes: ad swaps, title tests, Inspirations, collabs (10:50) Topic vs. hook, dubbing and global growth (15:40) Agents + trend mining playbook; sponsor: Carrot.ai

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

 Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts

 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources

 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/ Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Subscribe for Daily Marketing Insights!

Google AI Mode is About to Get More Popular

In this episode, Neil and Eric dissect Elon Musk’s “Daddy is very much home” grind—from Optimus engineering to late-night Tesla chip reviews and a Colossus 2 data center walk. They explore Musk’s DESA method for ruthless prioritization, why relationships saved Tesla and SpaceX, and how barrels, drivers, and pushers define execution and leadership under pressure.

TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Elon’s “Daddy is home” schedule
(03:40) Relationships that saved Tesla/SpaceX
(06:00) Musk’s DESA operating method
(08:55) Barrels, drivers, pushers explained
(16:45) Leadership from near-death moments

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOSTS

Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

FREE RESOURCES

Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

Elon Musk's 'Daddy's Home' Insane Work Schedule

In this episode, Neil and Eric break down how to win both Google rankings and AI citations. They compare short-query SEO factors like backlinks, authority, and technical signals with AI-driven co-citations and long conversational prompts. You’ll learn practical plays such as building FAQ sections, crafting concise fact nuggets, bundling subtopics, and tightening your NAP for dual visibility. They also unpack why most teams fail to see AI ROI, how MCP-driven workflows change that, and Peter Thiel’s timeless monopoly playbook: start small, scale right, and partner instead of disrupt. Actionable strategies, no fluff—built for AI Overviews and Google alike.

Key takeaways

 Co-citations + FAQs boost AI citations

 Summaries, NAP, subtopics win dual visibility

 MCP workflows drive real AI ROI

TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Google rankings vs AI citations explained

(03:00) Why most teams miss AI ROI + MCP basics
(07:00) Fortune 500’s low AI bar and agency playbooks
(13:00) Enterprise RFPs, podcast ROI, and leverage coaching
(15:00) Peter Thiel’s monopoly playbook: start small, scale right

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟

Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer.

LEARN MORE ABOUT THE HOSTS
Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

FREE RESOURCES
Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

AI has changed SEO forever (SEO vs GEO)

Agencies face pressure but smart M&A chances emerge. We cover deal math, asset vs. stock pitfalls, ops fixes, “artificial upticks,” and brand-safety risks—plus lessons from Federer, Jerry Jones, and LinkedIn’s SEO surge.

Key takeaways

Agency deals: Buy assets, check contracts, cross-sell, and use AI.

Growth reality: Upticks are old deals; fix ops and hiring to grow.

Winning edge: Small gains add up—stay steady and market with flair.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Agencies Are Struggling—M&A Conversations Heat Up

(01:16) B2B+B2C Synergy: Community, Creators & AI Leverage

(03:58) From Skepticism to Deal Diligence: How It Starts

(04:13) Buying Agencies: Asset Deals & Contract Traps

(04:46) Fast Filters: Not Every Intro Deserves a Call

(05:40) Artificial Revenue Spikes from Delayed Deals

(06:43) Growth via New Logos vs Operational Unblocking

(08:19) Macro View: Why the Economy Still Feels Weak

(08:41) Brand Safety Gone Wrong: Public Backlash Case

(12:10) Sponsor Note: NP Digital + Growth Tools

(12:29) Federer’s 54% Rule: Winning with Marginal Gains

(15:07) Djokovic on Composure: Your Brand = Your Temperament

(15:55) Cowboys Case Study: Spectacle as Strategy

(20:41) Promo DNA: Jerry Jones Learned from Grocery Hype

(21:00) LinkedIn SEO Surge, ChatGPT Referrals Drop

(21:45) Final Takeaways & Wrap

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, one of the top business podcasts with over 61 million downloads. Each episode delivers actionable marketing tips and strategies from two entrepreneurs who truly practice what they preach. The show is hosted by Eric Siu, founder of Leveling Up and Single Grain, and Neil Patel, co-founder of Neil Patel Digital and recognized by Forbes as a Top 10 Marketer. 

🎙️ Learn More About the Hosts
 Eric Siu – Leveling Up: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
 Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

📩 Free Resources
 Growth Newsletter: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
 Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
 Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

Marketing Agencies Are Feeling an Artificial Uptick in Business

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/ 

Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

In this episode of Marketing School, Eric Siu and Neil Patel talk about why building a business can feel “better than Netflix,” the trap of over-reading versus doing, and how to balance philosophy with action. They break down “bet-the-fund” venture capital moments (Andreessen Horowitz, Sequoia, GV, Founders Fund, etc.) and explain how LP co-invest sidecars work. The conversation then shifts to recession odds vs. stock market crash probability, Buffett-style investing and Berkshire’s record cash, and why fundamentals matter more than headlines. Finally, they cover new data showing ChatGPT’s traffic referrals decelerating versus Google, and how that shapes SEO strategy—more bottom-of-funnel, revenue-focused content, especially for enterprise B2B. Not financial advice.

Key takeaways

Action beats consumption: books and podcasts are useful, but skills compound in the trenches. Use philosophy to stay grounded, then execute.

Concentrated bets win: top VCs sometimes allocate 15–70% to a single conviction play; founders should also swing when the odds are in their favor and understand LP co-invest dynamics.

SEO reality check: Google still dwarfs AI referral traffic. Prioritize bottom-of-funnel content and measure by revenue/conversions, not month-to-month traffic swings.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) Business vs Netflix: Entrepreneurship as a Game
(01:58) Book Trap: Why Reading Might Keep You Broke
(02:29) Execution Beats Theory: Tennis & BJJ Analogy
(04:31) Stoicism in Business: Lessons from Marcus Aurelius
(05:03) B2B ABM Tactics: Personalized Ads + Landing Pages
(05:33) VC Risk Bets: Skype, Stripe, Uber, Cognition & More
(07:05) Behind the Scenes: LP Co-Investments & Sidecars
(08:35) Will a Recession Hit? Crash Probabilities Unpacked
(09:20) Buffett-Style Investing: Valuations & P/E in 2025
(11:31) Berkshire’s Record Cash While Markets Peak
(12:09) Tech vs Non-Tech: Target's Tough Lesson
(13:35) ChatGPT vs Google: AI Traffic Trends from Ahrefs
(14:36) Traffic ≠ Conversions: The Shift to Revenue Metrics
(15:02) Bottom-of-Funnel Is Back: MoM Traffic ≠ Value
(15:26) Enterprise GTM Shift: Attribution & RFPs Rewired
(16:20) Blog Leads in Decline: What Works Now
(16:47) High-Stakes Deals: Final Thoughts & Takeaways

ABOUT THE CHANNEL
Welcome to Marketing School, a top business podcast with 61 million downloads!

Each episode features marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs who practice what they preach and live what they teach.

Hosted by:

Eric Siu (Founder of Leveling Up & Single Grain)
Neil Patel (Co-founder of Neil Patel Digital, named a Top 10 Marketer by Forbes)

👉 Learn more about the hosts:
Leveling Up with Eric Siu: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial

Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

Other Free Resources from Eric & Neil

Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Don’t forget to SUBSCRIBE for daily marketing insights!

OTHER FREE RESOURCES FROM ERIC AND NEIL👇
Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE :)

This is 100x Better Than Netflix

Need marketing help? Visit: https://www.singlegrain.com/ and https://npdigital.com/
Want to recruit great marketers? Find them here: https://marketingschool.io/hire

ChatGPT vs Gemini: who’s really winning the AI race? In this episode, we break down Google Trends data, why Gemini’s “Nano Banana” launch spiked usage, and why Google’s massive distribution still gets held back by weak product marketing. We compare launch playbooks (Google vs OpenAI vs Apple), dig into a new study showing only 62% overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibility, and share how marketers should think about AI adoption: know enough to be dangerous, then hire specialists. Plus, a quick detour on iPhone choices, phone hygiene, and Steve Wozniak’s take on happiness vs wealth.

Key takeaways

 
Gemini’s surge shows distribution + a great model matters—but consistent, Apple-style product marketing is the missing piece.

 
SEO ≠ “GEO”: only ~62% overlap between Google rankings and ChatGPT visibility; 95% of ChatGPT users still visit Google, but only 14% of Google users visit ChatGPT.

 
For operators: play enough with new AI tools to scope opportunities, then hire experts to build agentic workflows and ship.

TIMESTAMPS

(00:00) ChatGPT vs Gemini Showdown
(00:42) Gemini Spike: The “Nano Banana” Effect
(01:35) Can Google Win the AI War?
(02:20) Google's Messaging Flaw Exposed
(03:05) Apple’s One-Message Launch Strategy
(03:55) iPhone Chat: Air vs Pro Battery Showdown
(05:55) Phone Hygiene: Wipes vs UV, ChatGPT Verdict
(07:15) Steve Wozniak on Happiness vs Wealth
(08:35) Money, Love & the “Enough” Mindset
(10:10) Relational Wealth by Life Stage
(12:15) Family Views on Work, Stress & Balance
(15:00) SEO ≠ GEO: 62% Overlap Explained
(16:30) OpenAI Hype vs Google Features
(17:25) Why Google Struggles With Product Marketing
(18:10) AI Tool Depth: Strategy for Busy Leaders

𝗔𝗕𝗢𝗨𝗧 𝗧𝗛𝗘 𝗖𝗛𝗔𝗡𝗡𝗘𝗟
Welcome to Marketing School, a top business podcast with 61 million downloads!

Each episode features marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs who practice what they preach and live what they teach.

Hosted by:

Eric Siu (Founder of Leveling Up & Single Grain)
Neil Patel (Co-founder of Neil Patel Digital, named a Top 10 Marketer by Forbes)

👉 Learn more about the hosts:
Leveling Up with Eric Siu: https://www.youtube.com/@LevelingUpOfficial
Neil Patel: https://www.youtube.com/@neilpatel

Other Free Resources from Eric & Neil

Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe

Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/

Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

✅ Don’t forget to SUBSCRIBE for daily marketing insights!

OTHER FREE RESOURCES FROM ERIC AND NEIL👇

Growth Newsletter for top marketers: https://levelingup.beehiiv.com/subscribe
Ubersuggest: https://www.ubersuggest.com/
Answer The Public: https://www.answerthepublic.com/

DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE :)

ChatGPT vs Gemini | The Empire Strikes Back

In this episode, Eric and Neil break down the evolution of SEO into GEO, AEO, and LLMO, and why marketers must adapt to shifting client demands. They explore how platforms like Reddit and YouTube now shape search visibility, highlight the risks of short-term SEO hacks, and share lessons from creators like MrBeast on growth, focus, and profitability.

(00:00) The future of SEO: GEO, AEO, and LLMO explained
(05:00) Why brand mentions, Reddit marketing, and YouTube strategy drive rankings
(10:00) SEO hacks, parasite strategies, and Google’s shifting role
(15:00) Reddit optimization tips and the dangers of AI-generated content
(20:00) Business lessons from MrBeast and Cursor: revenue vs. profitability

To suggest a topic, go to https://www.marketingschool.io.

For more content from Eric and Neil, check out:

 
Eric’s YouTube: Leveling Up with Eric Siu

 
Neil’s YouTube: Neil Patel

Connect with Us:

 
Single Grain << Eric’s ad agency

 
NP Digital << Neil’s ad agency

 
X: @neilpatel, @ericosiu

 
Instagram: @neilpatel, @ericosiu

Drop Us a Review If You Enjoyed the Episode!

GEO is not different than SEO. BUT…

In episode #2354, Neil and Eric discuss maximizing your sales with chatbots and artificial intelligence. OpenAI (the founders of ChatGPT), are changing the face of artificial intelligence; tune in today to hear how you can use their developments to your advantage! 
TIME-STAMPED SHOW NOTES:

[00:20] Today’s topic: Maximizing Your Sales with Chatbots and Artificial Intelligence.

[00:33] The power of chatbots.

[01:15] Some of the main issues relating to chatbots.

[01:35] How OpenAI is changing the artificial intelligence space. 

[02:23] The benefits of using a chatbot.

[03:35] Predictions for the future of chatbots.

[03:20] That’s it for today! Don’t forget to rate, review and subscribe!

[03:24] Go to https://marketingschool.io/live to learn more!

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Subscribe to our premium podcast (with tons of goodies!): https://www.marketingschool.io/pro

Learn more about OpenAI here: https://openai.com/ 

Leave Some Feedback:

What should we talk about next? Please let us know in the comments below

Did you enjoy this episode? If so, please leave a short review.

Connect with Us: 

Neilpatel.com

Quick Sprout 

Growth Everywhere

Single Grain

Twitter @neilpatel 

Twitter @ericosiu

 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Maximizing Your Sales with Chatbots and Artificial Intelligence

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