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The Ringer

Dave Chang has a few questions. Besides being the chef of the Momofuku restaurants and the creator and host of Netflix’s 'Ugly Delicious,' Dave is an avid student and fan of sports, music, art, film, and, of course, food. In ranging conversations that cover everything from the creative process to his guest’s guiltiest pleasures, Dave and a rotating cast of smart, thought-provoking guests talk about their inspirations, failures, successes, fame, and identities.

The Dave Chang Show

Dave talks to Brooks Headley of Superiority Burger about a range of topics, from constant iteration and refining dishes to the punk-rock urge to zig when everyone else zags. Superiority Burger has moved since they last spoke, so the pair talks about adjusting to the new space, New York, and thoughts on expansion. Dave closes by answering an Ask Dave about prepping frozen fish.

Learn more about Superiority Burger: https://www.superiorityburger.com/ 

Listen to our previous episode with Brooks Headley: https://open.spotify.com/episode/70nvKRNDXARAqCw5mOOslX?si=l9FoKuhwQEq4mOUroRsz5w 

Listen to our previous episode with Nancy Silverton: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3MLVEZq7CTbTTEKftrI7xk?si=Cc7FckT9TfWMXnbBYfU4yA 

Listen to our previous episode with Mark Ladner: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5qjEx81gP1UuGxHwoxjqfq?si=WxuUwMT7SZaakxsNRBoAhQ 

Read Dave's writing on Brooks for TIME 100: https://time.com/6964708/brooks-headley/ 

Hear the Ramones' 'All Quiet on the Eastern Front': https://open.spotify.com/track/3uxp0UwVWJVJqlXnH1d7zi?si=d6f4e464f8094a06 

Learn more about Yang's Kitchen: https://www.yangskitchenla.com/ 

Learn more about Bread and Salt Bakery: https://www.instagram.com/breadandsaltbakery/?hl=en 

Learn more about Chi Spacca: https://www.chispacca.com/ 

Learn more about Smoke House: https://www.smokehouse1946.com/ 

Learn more about El Bulli: https://elbullifoundation.com/en/ 

Learn more about Gramercy Tavern: https://www.gramercytavern.com/ 

Learn more about the Torrance Farmer's Market: https://www.torranceca.gov/our-city/cultural-services/farmers-market 

Learn more about South Pasadena Farmer's Market: https://southpasadenafarmersmarket.org/ 

Learn more about Weiser Family Farms: https://www.weiserfamilyfarms.com/ 

Learn more about Santa Monica Market: https://www.santamonica.com/experience-santa-monica/farmers-markets/ 

Learn more about Rustic Canyon: https://rusticcanyonrestaurant.com/ 

Watch our previous podcast with Jeremy Fox: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhkVPVTJwnA 

Learn more about the Greenmarket: https://www.grownyc.org/greenmarket 

Learn more about GPod Potatoes: https://gpodpotatoes.com/

Learn more about Edulis: https://www.edulisrestaurant.com/ 

Learn more about Arzak: https://www.arzak.es/en/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com

Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Mark Ladner

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Engineer: Belle Roman

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Point of View With Brooks Headley

Babbo is back! Dave welcomes executive chef Mark Ladner of the newly reopening New York City institution, the Italian restaurant Babbo. Dave and Mark catch up, share old New York memories, and discuss that ever-debated rice dish: risotto. They finish with a sneak peek of Babbo's new menu, Pre-Reopening Diaries, and an Ask Dave.

Learn more about Babbo: https://babbonyc.com/ 

Try to get your Babbo reservations if you can here: https://resy.com/cities/new-york-ny/venues/babbo-restaurant?date=2025-09-30&seats=2 

Listen to our recent podcast with Paul Carmichael: https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-dave-chang-show/2025/05/22/feeling-good-with-paul-carmichael 

Learn more about Kabawa: https://www.momofuku.com/restaurants/kabawa 

Learn more about Eeeeeatscon NYC: https://www.eeeeeatscon.com/new-york 

Read Kitchen Confidential: https://amzn.to/46TcWPN 

Read the NYT article about Stephen Starr: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/30/dining/stephen-starr-restaurants.html

Learn more about Brooklyn Glass: https://brooklynglass.com/ 

Learn more about Alto-Shaam: https://www.alto-shaam.com/en 

Learn more about CVAP: https://foodservice.winstonind.com/commercial-kitchen-equipment/ 

Learn more about Rational: https://www.rational-online.com/en_us/home/ 

Learn more about Craft: https://www.craftrestaurant.com/ 

Learn more about Santi: https://www.santinyc.com/ 

Learn more about Sodi: https://www.isodinyc.com/

Learn more about Rolo's: https://www.rolosnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Noodle Bar: https://www.momofuku.com/pages/noodle-bar 

Learn more about Buddakan: https://buddakannyc.com/ 

Learn more about Lyla Lila: https://www.lylalilaatl.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Mark Ladner

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Engineer: Belle Roman

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Innovation in Tradition and a Pre-Reopening Diaries with Mark Ladner

On today's episode, Dave talks about the rise of an icon in America: the burger! In the first part of an overarching 25-for-25 series on the rise of fast casual dining, Dave discusses the most influential burger moments in recent history, the celebrity butcher, and how we got to this point—the point in which burger spots rule. He then answers an Ask Dave and cooks up some homemade burgers.

Learn more about LaFrieda: https://www.lafrieda.com/ 

Learn more about Shake Shack: https://shakeshack.com/ 

Learn more about Cafe Boulud: https://cafeboulud.com/nyc/ 

Learn more about JG Melon: https://jgmelon-nyc.com/ 

Learn more about PJ Clarke's: https://pjclarkes.com 

Learn more about Peter Luger: https://peterluger.com/ 

Learn more about Piccinini Bros: https://piccininibros.com/ 

Learn more about Creekstone Farms: https://creekstonefarms.com/ 

Learn more about Eleven Madison Park: https://www.elevenmadisonpark.com/ 

Learn more about Frenchette: https://www.frenchettenyc.com/ 

Learn more about Le Veau d'Or: https://www.lvdnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Balthazar: https://balthazarny.com/ 

Learn more about Minetta Tavern: https://www.minettatavernny.com/ 

Learn more about Louis' Lunch: https://louislunch.com/ 

Learn more about Fuku: https://eatfuku.com/ 

Learn more about Next Thing You Eat: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15191350/ 

Learn more about Blackbird: https://www.blackbird.xyz/ 

Learn more about Resy: resy.com 

Learn more about Tock: https://www.exploretock.com/ 

Learn more about OpenTable: https://www.opentable.com/ 

Learn more about Toast: https://pos.toasttab.com/ 

Learn more about Union Square Hospitality Group: https://www.ushg.com/ 

Learn more about Major Food Group: https://www.majorfood.com/ 

Learn more about Burgerville: https://www.burgerville.com/ 

Learn more about White Castle: https://www.whitecastle.com/

Learn more about White Manna: https://www.whitemanna.com/ 

Learn more about Red Hook Tavern: https://www.redhooktavern.com/ 

Learn more about King's Hawaiian: https://kingshawaiian.com/ 

Learn more about Impossible Foods: https://impossiblefoods.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

25 for 25: The Rise of the Burger

Dave opens the episode with musings on how quickly the world, especially the food world, seems to change. Then, he interviews Sarah Fennel, founder of Broma Bakery and author of 'Sweet Tooth.' They talk about what might be her best recipe: A recipe for success from a degree she didn’t plan on using, pivoting into food blogging, and harnessing the power of social media. Dave wraps up the episode with Ask Dave.

Follow Sarah Fennel on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bromabakery/?hl=en

Learn more about Broma Bakery: https://bromabakery.com/

Get a copy of Sarah's book Sweet Tooth: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/734512/sweet-tooth-by-sarah-fennel-creator-of-broma-bakery/

Learn more about Food and Wine's Best New Chefs: https://www.foodandwine.com/2025-best-new-chefs-11777656

Listen to our recent episode with Donnie Madia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCMdkl18XtU

Learn more about Andy Hearnden: https://www.andy-cooks.com/

Learn morea bout Josh Weissman: https://www.joshuaweissman.com/

Read David Epstein's Range: https://davidepstein.com/range/

Listen to our previous episode with David Epstein: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2oC8kunxYpP3lEJ0aOK7yc

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Sarah Fennel

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Developing a Recipe for Success With Sarah Fennel

In a heartfelt and personal conversation, Dave interviews acclaimed chef Jeremy Fox (0:50) about his new book, ‘On Meat,’ and his incredible, culinary-world-impacting restaurant Ubuntu, as well as the challenges of being in the restaurant world today. They discuss creativity (35:02), the evolution of the chef industry, and what they have learned over their long careers. To close the podcast, Dave makes two easy home versions of pan pizza (52:53).

Get your copy of Jeremy Fox's On Meat: https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-meat-modern-recipes-for-the-home-kitchen-jeremy-fox/761f4f9473f0d92f?ean=9781837290864&next=t 

Get your copy of Jeremy Fox's On Vegetables: https://bookshop.org/p/books/on-vegetables-modern-recipes-for-the-home-kitchen-jeremy-fox/720be6559d3afd38?ean=9780714873909&next=t 

Learn more about Birdie G's: https://www.birdiegsla.com/about/ 

Learn more about Rustic Canyon: https://rusticcanyonrestaurant.com/ 

Listen to our previous episode with Jeremy: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7q5OmeGiUgxC05at8OmhQg 

Learn more about Manresa: https://www.ritualatmanresa.com/ 

Watch our previous episode with Sean Gray of Sergeantsville Inn: https://www.theringer.com/podcasts/the-dave-chang-show/2025/01/30/the-romantic-ideal-of-a-restaurant-with-sean-gray 

Learn more about Agnes and Sherman: https://www.agnesandsherman.com/ 

Learn more about Smithereens: https://www.smithereensnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Claud: https://www.claudnyc.com/ 

Listen to Velvet Underground's White Light / White Heat album: https://open.spotify.com/album/554JkhGvfj3IvlSyTaFQJB?si=OTngrsKDT7Wv0-vQ__NgJA 

Learn more about Mugaritz: https://www.mugaritz.com/en/ 

Learn more about Blue Hill at Stone Barns: https://www.bluehillfarm.com/ 

Get your copy of Vegetables by Great French Chefs: https://www.rizzoliusa.com/buy-online/9782080301253/ 

Learn more about Fig: https://eatatfig.com/ 

Learn more about Le Bernadin: https://www.le-bernardin.com/ 

Learn more about Commis: https://commisrestaurant.com/ 

Learn more about Cairnspring Mills: https://cairnspring.com/ 

Learn more about Darling: https://www.darling.la/ 

Learn more about Hillstone: https://hillstone.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Jeremy Fox

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Changing Tides and Lasting Impacts With Jeremy Fox

Dave's sauce may have broken, but his spirit hasn't! Back in the kitchen, Dave gives a preview and introduction of the next Dave Chang Show guest (1:03), takes an Ask Dave (9:31), and answers a MOIF (13:02), all before successfully making (and redeeming) his béarnaise sauce (19:11).

Learn more about Birdie G's: https://www.birdiegsla.com/

Learn more about Rustic Canyon: https://rusticcanyonrestaurant.com/ 

Check out our previous episode with Jeremy Fox: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7q5OmeGiUgxC05at8OmhQg

Learn more about Manresa: https://www.ritualatmanresa.com/

Learn more about French Laundry: https://thomaskeller.com/tfl/

Learn more about Rich Table: https://www.richtablesf.com/

Check out our episode with Aisha Ibrahim: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3JGaK7bTMQIS39wZBYPpmj

Check out Peter Serpico: https://www.instagram.com/serpicopter/?hl=en

Learn more about Halfway to Hana: https://roadtohana.com/halfway-to-hana-stand.php 

Learn more about Carême: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marie-Antoine-Careme

Learn more about Escoffier: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Auguste-Escoffier

Learn more about Craft: https://www.craftrestaurant.com/

Learn more about SOS Chefs: https://sos-chefs.com/

Learn more about Jean-Georges: https://www.jean-georgesrestaurant.com/jean-georges/

Learn more about Daniel: https://www.danielnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Per Se: https://thomaskeller.com/perseny/

Learn more about Fable: https://us.fable.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

davechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The "Sauceshank" Redemption

Dave is in Las Vegas, but even a change of scenery can't distract him from the faux pas he made on the Chrissy Teigen–Diplo episode of ‘Dinner Time Live’ (0:49). After recapping said faux pas, Dave discusses the incredible legacy of Chef Nobu Matsuhisa (29:57), then finishes the show by tasting a brand-new food item coming to convenience stores in the U.S. (45:32).

Check out Dinner Time Live: https://www.netflix.com/title/81748864 

Learn more about HAGS NYC: https://hagsnyc.com/ 

Learn more about Melanie Dunea's Last Supper: https://www.mylastsupper.com/ 

Learn more about Kikunoi: https://kikunoi.jp/en/ 

Learn more about Nobu: https://noburestaurants.com/ 

Read more about 7-11 bringing Japanese-style convenience store items to the US: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/09/business/7-eleven-ceo-stephen-dacus.html 

Learn more about the No Reservations episode with Dave, Anthony Bourdain, and Sean Brock in Japan: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2375989/ 

Learn more about Fable: https://us.fable.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

‘Dinner Time Live’ Faux Pas and a Tribute to Nobu

On this episode, Dave interviews Jack Benchakul, owner and sole barista at Endorffeine Coffee, which celebrates its 10th anniversary this year. The two talk about Jack's path to Endorffeine, as well as coffee culture and history. They also deep-dive into their opposing philosophies on reaching the same goal: finding contentment. For their eating pleasure, Dave prepares three versions of ham and red-eye gravy, a delicious, coffee-based sauce.

Learn more about Endorffeine: https://endorffeine.coffee/ 

Follow Endorffeine on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/endorffeine/?hl=en 

Learn more about Cup of Excellence: https://cupofexcellence.org/ 

Learn more about Peterson's Coffee — Hacienda La Esmeralda: https://ptscoffee.com/blogs/meet-our-farmers/the-peterson-family-hacienda-la-esmeralda?srsltid=AfmBOorxhSAfvQxYzdOJ5aeELSGON1NYy8dQ_mJhgyehXurvEyip8MI6 

Learn more about Boulevard: https://www.boulevardrestaurant.com/ 

Learn more about Miette: https://www.miette.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorqR7_PJ8ZDzW_BLhPDPFv0a_JMXlHlA6-z5NzYR4spHw0RyeYC 

Learn more about State Bird: https://www.statebirdsf.com/

Learn more about Blue Bottle Coffee: https://bluebottlecoffee.com/us/eng 

Learn more about Scoops: https://www.scoopschinatown.com/ 

Learn more about Cafe Boulud: https://cafeboulud.com/nyc/ 

Learn more about Fable: https://us.fable.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Guest: Jack Benchakul

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Coffee and Contentment With Jack Benchakul

It's time for another Ask Dave Mailbag! Dave starts off by talking about his newfound respect for ... Italian Sunday dinner (1:52)? Then, he dives into the mailbag. From bad diners (15:48) to pasta serving sizes (28:06) to how to cook a T-bone steak (38:45), Dave answers all. He also announces another Ask Dave prize package winner from those who submitted! Submit your Ask Daves and get entered into our next prize drawing in the form below.

Learn more about Major Food Group: https://www.majorfood.com/ 

Learn more about Torrisi: https://torrisinyc.com/ 

Learn more about Carbone: https://carbonenewyork.com/ 

Learn more about Pizzeria Bianco: https://www.pizzeriabianco.com/los-angeles

Learn more about Red Hook Tavern: https://www.redhooktavern.com/

Learn more about the San Gennaro festival: https://sangennaronyc.org/

Learn more about Katz's Deli: https://katzsdelicatessen.com/?srsltid=AfmBOooYaVfVwEOSETiLjeSdyQHbOn90zh-qQgseGkDHJCAZLTMnsmJW 

Learn more about Sammy's: https://www.instagram.com/famous_sammys/

Read the review of 71 Clinton: https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/library/dining/040500restaurant-clinton.html

Learn more about Stretch Pizza: https://www.stretchpizzanyc.com/ 

Read Truffle Boy: https://amzn.to/3VtJryC 

Learn more about Langer's: https://www.langersdeli.com/ 

Learn more about Golden Century: https://goldencentury.com.au/ 

Learn more about Fable: https://us.fable.com/ 

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

An Ask Dave Mailbag and Dinner Time Live Italian Food Revelation

In this episode, which left the kitchen smelling like fryer oil, Dave makes chicken wings three ways (11:26) in search of the best version to make at home ... and the winner is a big surprise. Dave also voices his wing opinions (0:55), makes a chicken stock from the leftover wing tips (42:10), and answers an Ask Dave (7:00).

Learn more about Athletic Brewing: https://athleticbrewing.com/

Learn more about Frank's RedHot: https://www.mccormick.com/pages/brands/franks-redhot

Learn more about Noodle Bar: https://www.momofukunoodlebar.com/

Learn more about Rodney Scott's BBQ: https://rodneyscottsbbq.com/

Watch Dave light his taste buds on fire on Hot Ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8ZaV9d5j_k&t=1195s

Learn more about First We Feast: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstWeFeast

Learn more about Fable: https://us.fable.com/

Send in your Ask Dave questions to bit.ly/AskDaveForm or askdave@majordomomedia.com.

Subscribe to the show on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thedavechangshow.

Subscribe to Recipe Club on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@recipeclubofficial.

Submit your favorite food moments in your favorite movies to majorfoodporn.com.

Join our community Discord on majordomo.com.

Look for the black carton in the egg aisle.

Host: Dave Chang

Majordomo Media Producer: David Meyer

Spotify Producer: Felipe Guilhermino

Editor: Stefano Sanchez
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chicken Wings at Home: Appliance Showdown

Dave and Chris discuss the outsized response to Dave’s comments about Costco rotisserie chicken and how clickbait media distorts our views. Then, they go over everything Dave ate in Boston, including comparative oyster studies and the age-old debate of lobster versus crab.
Hosts: Dave Chang and Chris Ying
Producers: Sasha Ashall, Cory McConnell, Richie Bozek, and Gabi Marler
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Media Distortion and Lobster vs. Crab

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