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Michael Shermer

The Michael Shermer Show is a series of long-form conversations between Dr. Michael Shermer and leading scientists, philosophers, historians, scholars, writers and thinkers about the most important issues of our time.

The Michael Shermer Show

For nearly two centuries, international relations have been premised on the idea of the "Great Powers." As the thinking went, these mighty states—the European empires of the nineteenth century, the United States and the USSR during the Cold War—were uniquely able to exert their influence on the world stage because of their overwhelming military capabilities. But this conception of power fails to capture the more complicated truth about how wars are fought and won. 
 
Our focus on the importance of large, well-equipped armies and conclusive battles has obscured the foundational forces that underlie military victories and the actual mechanics of successful warfare.
 
Phillips O'Brien suggests a new framework of "full-spectrum powers," taking into account all of the diverse factors that make a state strong—from economic and technological might, to political stability, to the complex logistics needed to maintain forces in the field. 
 
Drawing on examples ranging from Napoleon's France to today's ascendant China, he offers a critical new understanding of what makes a power truly great.
 
Phillips Payson O'Brien is a professor of strategic studies and head of the School of International Relations at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland. He is the author of six books, including his latest War and Power: Who Wins Wars—and Why.

Why Wars Last Longer Than Experts Predict

In this episode of The Michael Shermer Show, Michael sits down with two giants of mind and machine science: Jay McClelland, one of the founders of modern neural networks, and Gaurav Suri, computational neuroscientist and director of the RAD Lab.
 
Drawing from decades of research, they walk us through the revolution from behaviorism to cognitive psychology to modern neuroscience, and why simple interacting units can give rise to astonishingly complex behaviors. 
 
From why we perceive letters differently in context to how memory works, why consciousness remains baffling, and what AI is (and isn't) actually doing, this episode dives deep into the mechanics of all levels of thought, mind, and even consciousness.
 
Jay McClelland is a professor of psychology and of computer science and linguistics at Stanford University. He is one of the most influential and well-known cognitive scientists of the past century. He is the founder of the study of artificial neural networks, and his publications have been cited more than 100,000 times. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and a Corresponding Fellow of the British Academy.
 
Gaurav Suri is an associate professor of psychology at San Francisco State University. He is a computational neuroscientist and an experimental psychologist. He is the director of RADLab, where he studies the mechanisms that shape motivated action and decision making. He is the co-author of the prize-winning novel A Certain Ambiguity and several dozen influential research papers. 
 
Their new book is The Emergent Mind: How Intelligence Arises in People and Machines.

The Emergent Mind: From Ant Colonies to Human Thought to Artificial Intelligence

Astrobiologist Caleb Scharf joins Michael Shermer for a wide-ranging conversation about the past, present, and future of our relationship with space. Drawing on his new book The Giant Leap, Scharf explains why human expansion beyond Earth may be less a choice than an evolutionary development, and he walks through the physics, history, and personalities that shaped our journey off the planet.
 
Scharf also explains the biological toll of radiation and microgravity, and why terraforming Mars is probably unrealistic and why our future might rely more on building vast rotating habitats in space than on settling other planets.
 
Caleb Scharf is an astrobiologist and recipient of the 2022 Carl Sagan Medal. He was Director of Astrobiology at Columbia University in New York and is now the Senior Scientist for Astrobiology at the NASA Ames Research Center in Silicon Valley. He is author of more than 120 scientific papers and over 500 popular science articles. His new book is The Giant Leap: Why Space is the Next Frontier in the Evolution of Life.

Are We Meant to Leave Earth? Why Humanity May Have No Choice but to Go to Space

In this episode, Michel-Yves Bolloré lays out his case for why modern cosmology, fine-tuning, and the limits of materialism point toward a creator. Drawing on physics, thermodynamics, probability, and philosophy, he argues that the Big Bang, the apparent beginning of the universe, and the complexity of life collectively form a compelling body of evidence for God's existence. Bolloré explains why he believes the universe is not eternal, why "nothing" cannot produce "something," how moral red lines suggest a transcendent source, and how he reconciles scientific reasoning with his Christian faith, while Michael Shermer gently but rigorously presses him with questions to elicit his strongest arguments.
 
Michel-Yves Bolloré is an engineer and entrepreneur whose career spans industrial innovation and philanthropic investment in education. He is a graduate of the École Nationale Supérieure d'Ingénieur de Toulouse and Paris-Dauphine University (Master of Science and Doctorate in Business Administration). He founded several schools, including The Laurels in London and Les Vignes in France. He is also a Knight of the Legion of Honor. His new book is God: the Science and the Evidence.

Cosmology, Creation, and the Evidence for God

Have you ever thought about the science and history of … wind?
 
In this episode, Simon Winchester explains why eastbound flights are usually faster than flying west, and how the discovery of the jet stream was almost missed because the original research was published in Esperanto. He also talks about the debate over the Great Terrestrial Stilling—the idea that global wind speeds may be decreasing—and why newer measurements suggest the trend may be reversing.
 
Winchester describes how and where the highest wind speed ever recorded was measured, the increasing frequency of clear-air turbulence (the kind that causes sudden drops during flights), why only one flag placed on the Moon fell, the techniques used by Polynesian navigators to cross vast stretches of ocean without instruments, and the challenges faced by early wartime pilots who unintentionally flew into the jet stream.
 
Simon Winchester is the acclaimed author of many books, including The Professor and the Madman, which was adapted into a film starring Mel Gibson and Sean Penn, as well as The Men Who United the United States, The Map That Changed the World, The Man Who Loved China, A Crack in the Edge of the World, and Krakatoa. His books have been New York Times bestsellers and have appeared on numerous best-of-the-year lists. In 2006 he was appointed an Officer of the Order of the British Empire (OBE) by Her Majesty the Queen.

Why Eastbound Flights Are Faster, and Other Strange Things About Wind (Simon Winchester)

In this episode, Angus Fletcher explains why the human brain doesn't work like a computer and why our deepest strengths come not from logic or data processing but from imagination, emotion, and the ability to invent new futures. Drawing on neuroscience, Shakespeare, evolutionary biology, and his work with U.S. Army Special Operations, Fletcher shows how storytelling is the brain's oldest "technology," why intelligence is rooted in action rather than analysis, and what most people get wrong about creativity and common sense.
 
Angus Fletcher is a professor of story science at Ohio State's Project Narrative, the world's leading academic think tank dedicated to understanding how stories work. He earned his PhD from Yale, conducted postdoctoral research at Stanford, and in 2023 received the U.S. Army's Commendation Medal for his groundbreaking work with Army Special Operations on primal intelligence. He has also written screenplays for major Hollywood studios and networks. His new book is Primal Intelligence: You Are Smarter Than You Know.

Logic, Creativity, and the Limits of AI: How Humans Think in Ways Machines Never Will

War begins in the human mind long before it unfolds on the battlefield.
 
In this episode, Michael Shermer sits down with Nicholas Wright, a neurologist, neuroscientist, security strategist, and advisor to the Pentagon, to explore one of the biggest questions of our time: why do humans fight, and how does the brain shape violence, leadership, and geopolitical decision-making?
 
Nicholas Wright is a member of the Royal Colleges of Physicians and a neuroscientist who researches the brain, technology, and security at University College London, Georgetown University, and the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, DC. He worked as a neurology doctor in London and Oxford, and has published numerous academic papers which have been covered by the BBC and The New York Times. His new book is Warhead: How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain.

The Psychology of War: Could YOU Make a Moral Choice in Wartime?

Why do smart people join dangerous cults, follow bad leaders, or stay silent when they know something's wrong? In this episode, Michael Shermer talks with organizational psychologist Colin Fisher about the science of group dynamics and conformity.
 
From jazz bands to political mobs, Fisher explains how our evolutionary need to belong both unites and blinds us. He discusses the psychology of revenge, polarization, social media extremism, and why our brains are wired to dehumanize "the other."
 
What makes a group innovative instead of dogmatic? And how close are we—really—to turning everyday politics into a cult?
 
Colin M. Fisher is an Associate Professor of Organizations and Innovation at University College London's School of Management. His research focuses on helping groups and teams in situations requiring creativity, improvisation, and complex decision-making. He has written about group dynamics for both popular science and management audiences, and his work has been profiled in prominent media outlets such as BBC, Forbes, NPR, and The Times. His new book is The Collective Edge: Unlocking the Secret Power of Groups.

Tribes, Teams, and Cults: How Groups Shape What We Believe

In this episode, Michael Shermer explores anomalous experiences through personal anecdotes and historical examples. He reflects on how to balance healthy skepticism with open-mindedness, and how to reckon with the very real emotional significance of such experiences—regardless of the scientific explanations behind them.

Shermer Says 3: Weird Experiences, the Meaning of Dreams, and What Mark Twain Knew About Reality

A former senior intelligence officer explains how espionage is evolving in the age of AI and amid rising global tensions with China, and why the mass harvesting of data affects not just nation-states, but all of us.
 
The discussion also explores the history of spying, what life is really like for intelligence officers, and major intelligence failures and scandals, including 9/11 and Edward Snowden's unauthorized disclosures about the NSA.
 
Anthony Vinci served as the first Chief Technology Officer at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA). Earlier in his career he served in Iraq, Africa, and Asia. He is an Adjunct Senior Fellow at the Center for a New American Security (CNAS) and received his PhD in International Relations from the London School of Economics. His new book is The Fourth Intelligence Revolution: The Future of Espionage and the Battle to Save America.

A Former Spy Explains How AI is Changing Espionage

In episode 153, Michael speaks with University of Oxford research psychologist Dr. Kevin Dutton about his new book Black-and-White Thinking: The Burden of a Binary Brain in a Complex World. Shermer and Dutton discuss a wide gamut including black-and-white thinking in physics, biology, psychology, politics, economics, society; categories, stereotypes, bigotries; the dark side of black-and-white thinking: tribalism, xenophobia, and racism; abortion, gender, cults, sects, religions, mental disorders, and consciousness. Don't miss this fascinating dialogue with the author of Flipnosis and The Wisdom of Psychopaths (which won the prize for Best American Science and Nature Writing).

153. Kevin Dutton — Black-and-White Thinking: The Burden of a Binary Brain in a Complex World

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