app_store_button

google_play_button

is Device Banner Block 894x1036

Stígðu inn í heim af óteljandi sögum

Hlustaðu og lestu

Audioboom Studios

Join Jason Tartick as he breaks into the vault of secrets behind all things Money and careers. Jason explores the taboo curiosities and money questions we have been told never to discuss! He dives into all the trading secrets that we want to know and need to know to properly navigate the financial world as consumers, employees and investors. Out with the mantra of "wishing you knew then, what you know now"! Listen carefully as you will uncover trading secrets from Jason and his expert guests who dive into a specific subject every episode surrounding anything and everything, money. The power of “the inside scoop” will now be realized and you can use these trading secrets to earn more, spend less, and invest wisely.

Trading Secrets

This week, Jason is joined by powerhouse entrepreneur, Shahab Elmi!

Shahab is the founder and CEO of Cymbiotika, a disruptor in the wellness space that has grown into one of the fastest rising supplement brands in the United States. Cymbiotika is redefining what it means to build a business that thrives financially, and making an impact culturally. 

Shahab dives into how a life-threatening health situation reinforced the importance of health, He shares the origin story of Cymbiotika, diving into how data accessibility, generational shifts, and the evolving world of consumer packaged goods have changed the wellness industry. Shahab reflects on why the people you surround yourself with matter more than the money, and what consumers should really be paying attention to when it comes to their health. He breaks down his four daily objectives, his philosophy on consistent self-improvement and small wins, and how he defines true luxury. Shahab also explores why people view spending on wellness differently than on food, drinks, or fashion, the power of effort as his ultimate non-negotiable, building an empire alongside his wife, and what’s next for Cymbiotika’s mission to elevate everyday living.

Shahab reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest: Shahab Elmi + Cymbiotika.com 

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group 

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Nutrafol: 

See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TRADINGSECRETS.

Prolon:

Prolon is a plant-based nutrition program featuring soups, snacks, and beverages designed to nourish the body while keeping it in a fasting state, triggering cellular rejuvenation and renewal. Get 15% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program by visiting ProlonLife.com/TRADINGSECRETS 

Bilt:

Bilt is turning a monthly expense into an opportunity to earn rewards and discover the best that your neighborhood has to offer. Your rent is finally working for you. Earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbilt.com/tradingsecrets

Booking.com:

If your vacation rental isn't listed on Booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to Booking.com and start your listing today. Get Seen. Get Booked on Booking.com

YouTube Title: Needs to be 100 characters or less

 | Trading Secrets w/ Jason Tartick

260. Shahab Elmi: Powerhouse entrepreneur breaks down the mindset behind Cymbiotika, prioritizing wellness as a luxury, finding the small wins, and the $$$ behind it all

This week, Jason is joined by one of the fast rising stars in Netflix’s global reality universe, Harry Jowsey!

After first breaking onto the scene with Netflix unscripted TV, Harry has become one of the faces of the platform with his own show “Let’s Marry Harry” premiering in 2026. He was the centerpiece of Netflix’s summer breakout event earlier this year where the streamer spotlighted him as one of its breakout stars. However, Harry’s career goes further beyond reality TV as he breaks into acting with starring roles in Netflix’s upcoming “The Wrong Paris” and “Billy Knight” where he will be opposite Al Pacino, and the horror indie film Horrified. He is also an entrepreneur launching PASH, a sustainable brand with a philanthropic mission inspired by his personal experience.

Harry Jowsey is back — and this time, he’s peeling back the curtain on what’s changed since his last appearance in 2021. From the unique path he’s carved in television to the downside of being “too good” in the industry, Harry gets candid about how he’s grown, what he’s learned, and how he’s navigating the highs and lows of fame. He opens up about dealing with online hate and turning it into a lesson, the realities of living and working in LA’s film industry, and why redefining what it means to “take a break” has been a game changer. Harry also dives into the making of Let’s Marry Harry, the likelihood of a proposal, his personal goal to read daily, and where he’s making the most money right now. Plus, Harry weighs in on the current state of reality TV vs. scripted work, the shows he passed on (and may regret), his experience working as an actor, joining the Unwell network with Alex Cooper, his desire to work on projects that simply make people feel good, and his unfiltered take on today’s social media landscape.

Harry reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest: Harry Jowsey

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group 

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Functional Health:

Quince:

Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to Quince.com/tradingsecrets for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too.

OneSkin:

OneSkin is changing how we age by focusing on skin and scalp health at the cellular level. Powered by their patented OS-01 Peptide ™, every formula is designed to keep skin healthier, stronger, and more resilient over time. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code TRADINGSECRETS at oneskin.co

Booking.com:

If your vacation rental isn't listed on Booking.com, it could be invisible to millions of travelers searching the platform. Don't miss out on consistent bookings and global reach. Head over to Booking.com and start your listing today. Get Seen. Get Booked on Booking.com

YouTube Title: Needs to be 100 characters or less

 | Trading Secrets w/ Jason Tartick

259. Harry Jowsey: From reality TV to scripted, how Netflix powerhouse has expanded his career on screen, continuing to redefine the rules, and the core values that keep him grounded

This week, Jason is joined by author, entrepreneur, professor, and most notably former member of the FBI, known as the mast negotiator, Chris Voss!

Chris earned that title throughout his time serving as the lead crisis negotiator for the New York City division of the FBI, and then as FBI’s Chief International Hostage and Kidnapping negotiator. In 2008, after spending 24 years and working 150 international hostage cases for the FBI, Chris founded the Black Swan group which serves as a consulting and training agency for both businesses and individuals on negotiating skills. He has also published several NYT bestselling books.

The former FBI hostage negotiator pulls back the curtain on the art and science of high-stakes communication. Chris breaks down his thoughts on President Trump’s negotiation tactics, explains what an “accusation audit” is and why it’s so effective, and shares how he reacts when others use his own techniques against him. He dives into knowing when to walk away, why every interaction should end on a high note, and what to do when you’re being ghosted. Chris also brings his negotiation expertise into everyday life—offering strategies for navigating dating, marriage, and divorce, the power of telling the truth, and why curiosity can be a superpower when dealing with tight-lipped people. He reveals how a kidnapping hostage negotiation unfolds, the cost of a bad deal, why trusting your gut matters, and his best tips for negotiating your salary.

Chris reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest: 

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group 

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Square:

If you're starting a business, or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down. Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com/go/tradingsecrets 

Momentous:

Momentous Creapure ® Creatine is backed by leading performance experts like Dr Andrew Huberman and Dr Stacy Sims. Sourced exclusively in Germany, Creapure sets the gold standard for creatine, delivering the purest form, creatine monohydrate, that's rigorously washed and never cut with fillers. Go to livemomentous.com, and use promo code TRADINGSECRETS for up to 35% off your first subscription order

Boll & Branch:

Boll & Branch makes upgrading your bed easier than ever with curated Bundles for a sanctuary of comfort. For a limited time get 20% off Bed Bundles, plus free shipping and returns, at BollAndBranch.com/tradingsecrets.

257. Chris Voss Returns! Former FBI lead crisis negotiator on reading people, building instant trust, & and turning pressure into power - the negotiation tactics YOU need to know

This week, Jason is joined by one of the most recognizable and respected journalists in America, Kaitlan Collins!

Kaitlan is the anchor of The Source on CNN and CNN’s Chief White House correspondent, where she brings clarity and accountability to the story shaping our world. As a Chief White House correspondent, she has covered both Trump and Biden and now Trump again and is making history as the youngest ever to hold that role at the network. She has reported from the halls of the White House to international summits, pressing world leaders about presidents alike with sharp, fearless questions. Kaitlan’s rise from local Alabama roots is a story of ambition, resilience, and navigating the business of media at the highest level. 

 Kaitlan Collins takes us inside the fast-paced world of political reporting, revealing what it’s really like to cover the White House across multiple administrations. She shares how she broke into politics, the differences between presidencies, and what it means to have a direct line to the president. Kaitlan opens up about working at a conservative-leaning outlet early in her career, how that unexpected path led her to CNN, and the lessons she’s learned about preparation, composure, and credibility in the chaos of live news. She reveals how correspondents vet information in real time, who taught her how to negotiate, the average length of a correspondent contract, and what her biggest “Grammy moment” has been on air. From question regret to staying objective, managing pressure in the briefing room, and protecting press access through every administration — Kaitlan gets candid about the realities, risks, and rewards of being one of the most trusted voices in political journalism.

Kaitlan reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest: Kaitlan Collins

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Indeed:

There's no need to wait any longer-speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. For a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to get your jobs more visibility head to Indeed.com/SECRETS 

Rula:

Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit Rula.com/tradingsecrets to get started.

Function Health:

Function is a near-360 view to see what's happening in your body, and my first 1000 listeners get a $100 credit toward their membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com/TRADINGSECRETS or use gift code TRADINGSECRETS100 at sign-up to own your health.

Nutrafol:

See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping, go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TRADINGSECRETS.

256. Kaitlan Collins: CNN’s Chief White House correspondent and anchor dives into the fast-paced world of political reporting, importance of preparedness, and working closely with multiple administrations

This week, Jason is joined by reality TV and Jupiter, Florida’s favorite couple, Tyler Cameron and Tate Madden!

Many know Tyler from his numerous reality TV appearances, more specifically in Bachelor Nation where he was looking to find love. Little did he know that true love was right under his nose having met Tate while working at his company in Florida. Tyler and Tate have continued working together in their own entrepreneurial endeavors, including a new career pivot for Tyler.

Tyler and Tate open up about where life and business have taken them since reality TV. Tyler shares his transition into real estate, what it’s really like working as a realtor compared to being a contractor, and why—despite signing with Serhant—he won’t be appearing on Selling Manhattan. He talks about the importance of being part of a team, his Emmy nomination, and the best house flip they’ve pulled off so far, plus why the “buy and hold” tactic matters in real estate. Tate dives into building her personal brand online, blocking out the noise of social media, and the influence her mom had on their early DIY projects. Together, they reflect on long-term professional and personal planning, the challenges that come with doing things that feel scary or uncomfortable, and how their personalities balance one another.

From whether reality TV could still be in their future, to how their parents defend them online, to what today’s reality shows can learn from younger generations—Tyler and Tate leave no stone unturned. And of course, some rapid-fire fun to wrap it all up.

Tate and Tyler reveal all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest: Tyler Cameron + Tate Madden

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Trova Trip:

If you've been putting off that "someday" trip because of time or planning stress — here's your sign. Go to trovatrip.com and use code TRADINGSECRETS for $100 off your first trip.

UpWork:

Posting a job on Upwork is easy; with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

Yubico:

Protecting the personal and business applications and accounts that people and companies rely on every day, the YubiKey stops AI-powered cyberattacks, online identity scams, fraud, and account takeovers. It provides powerful protection and it’s easy to use. Visit Yubico.com and use code “JASON” at purchase for $5 off a YubiKey 5C NFC.

255. Tyler Cameron & Tate Madden: From contractor work and DIY to realtor and building their own brands, BTS of new business ventures, life updates, and planning for the future

This week, Jason is joined by Survivor season 48, Kyle Fraser!

After 26 days of outwitting, outplaying, and outlasting one of the most grueling reality competition shows out there in television history, Kyle walked away with the 1 million dollar prize and the title of soul survivor. Known for his strategic gameplay, clutch immunity wins, and ability to build trust in even the most cutthroat situations, Kyle’s season has been called one of the most exciting in recent memory. 

Kyle takes us behind the scenes of his Survivor journey and life after winning $1,000,000. He shares the unforgettable moment he told his wife he’d won, how fast the prize money hit his account, and the first splurge—Taylor Swift tickets. From navigating starvation, sleep deprivation, and drastic weight loss on the island, to the strategy of amping up his personality, hiding his real career as a lawyer, and why winning rewards can actually hurt your game, Kyle reveals what it really takes to stand out among fierce competitors. He also dives into his dual life as a teacher and lawyer, the realities and pay gaps between both professions, the critical role intent plays in court, and how his investigation skills served him better than reading people. Finally, Kyle opens up about life before and after Survivor: the judge who helped him balance work and TV, what he would bring to a deserted island, how he’s spent his winnings so far, and why keeping a safety net is non-negotiable.

Kyle reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest:Kyle Fraser

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Leesa:

Leesa mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the U.S.A. for exceptional quality - plus they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns, and a 100-night sleep trial.Go to Leesa.com for 25% off mattresses PLUS get an extra $50 off with promo code TRADINGSECRETS

UpWork:

Posting a job on Upwork is easy; with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

254: Kyle Fraser: Survivor Season 48 winner dives into his careers in education and law, brutal behind-the-scenes realities of competing on Survivor, & how he is spending his $1M prize money

This week, Jason is joined by radio personality, author, TV host, and all around trailblazer, Bobby Bones!

Bobby rose to national fame with the Bobby Bones Show, a nationally syndicated radio show that redefined country radio and became a staple for millions of listeners across the US. He’s a two time New York Times bestselling author, a Dancing With the Stars Champion, and beloved mentor on American Idol. But Bobby’s story isn’t just about success, it’s about grit, resilience, and staying true to your roots while chasing something bigger. 

Bobby opens up about how his upbringing shaped his perspective and became a strength in his career, the resilience that helps him cut through the noise, and why he decided to build his own syndication company with his own money. He shares the story behind the infamous “Go Away Bobby Bones” billboards, the “illegal” training he did to sharpen his moves for Dancing With the Stars, and what proving value really means to him. Bobby also breaks down the benefits of long-form content over TV for career longevity, why he was scared of debt even after making his first million at 30, and the key differences between radio and podcasting. From the importance of owning your IP, to why he considers Taylor Swift a genius, to the artists and interviews that stand out most in his career—Bobby doesn’t hold back. Plus, he reveals who makes it onto his personal Mount Rushmore and gives a rare glimpse into his personal life.

Bobby reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest:Bobby Bones

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Boll & Branch:

Feel the difference an extraordinary night’s sleep can make with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at BollAndBranch.com/tradingsecrets *Exclusions apply.

Nutrafol:

See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just 3-6 months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering $10-off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code TRADINGSECRETS.

Trova Trip:

If you've been pushing that dream trip down the road, here's your shortcut. Head to trovatrip.com and use code TRADINGSECRETS for $100 off your first trip.

UpWork:

Posting a job on Upwork is easy; with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free.

YouTube Title: Needs to be 100 characters or less

 | Trading Secrets w/ Jason Tartick

253: Bobby Bones: $12k in billboards with millions in return?! Breaking down the pendulum of the audience, lessons learned in his upbringing, relationship with money, and proving your value

Jason Tartick, Kelley Flannigan, and Jason's sidekick David Arduin (aka The Curious Canadian) dive into the biggest shake-up Bachelor Nation has seen in years — the casting of Taylor Frankie Paul as the next Bachelorette. From her controversial background to her massive social media following, we break down why ABC made this bold decision, how fans might react, and what it could mean for the future of ratings across The Bachelor franchise. Is this the risk the show needs to stay alive, or a move that could backfire? Tune in for insider takes, business analysis, and fan perspective on the franchise's most dramatic pivot yet.

252. The Bachelorette's Boldest Move Yet: Taylor Frankie Paul Takes the Lead

This week, Jason is joined by reality TV star and commercial pilot, Rachel Recchia!

Rachel first captured America’s attention on The Bachelor before becoming one of the co-leads of The Bachelorette Season 19, where she navigated love, heartbreak, and the spotlight in front of millions of viewers. She later returned to Bachelor in Paradise, further cementing her place as a fan favorite in Bachelor Nation, but Rachel’s story goes far beyond reality TV. She is a licensed pilot, a career she’s pursued well before the cameras.

Rachel pulls back the curtain on her journey through two very different corners of reality TV—The Bachelor franchise and Netflix’s Perfect Match—and explains what ultimately led her to say yes to Perfect Match. She dives into her true passion outside of television: aviation. From working as a flight instructor to breaking down the costly path of pilot training, Rachel shares her long-term goals in the cockpit, the different licenses she’s earned, and how quickly she returned to work after her season of The Bachelorette.

She opens up about how the men from her season impacted her mental health, the challenge of balancing a career in aviation with the world of social media, and why she doesn’t see herself as an “influencer.” Rachel also compares reality TV audiences, reveals why she’ll never return to The Bachelor franchise, and gets candid about dating after reality TV. The episode wraps with a rapid-fire money segment that offers an honest look at life beyond the spotlight.

Rachel reveals all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest:Rachel Recchia

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

Quince:

Elevate your fall wardrobe essentials with Quince. Go to Quince.com/tradingsecrets for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns.

Indeed: 

There's no need to wait any longer-speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. For a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to get your jobs more visibility head to Indeed.com/SECRETS.

251. Rachel Recchia: Bachelor Nation fan favorite breaks down the realities of reality TV between networks, saying yes to Perfect Match, continuing her passion for aviation and the $$$ behind it all!

This week, Jason is joined by content creator couple who turned into social media stars, Chicklet and Maleni!

After meeting at a friend’s party over ten years ago, Chicklet and Maleni had instant chemistry and it was their sense of humor that eventually brought them together, not only as a couple, but an internet comedy duo. Achieving a level of fame and recognition was not necessarily an objective for the budding comedians who stood out with their short videos, however, with over 7 million combined followers across their social media accounts, their love for each other and comedy turned into a story that people wanted to follow. 

Maleni and Chicklet open up about the professional paths they once imagined for themselves and how those plans shifted as content creation took center stage. Chicklet shares how he got his start while working at Parks and Rec before taking the leap into full-time content, while Maleni reflects on her early career with a dance company. They break down the moment they realized real money could be made on social media, which videos first went viral, and their experience with Streaming University. The two also dive into the biggest challenges of working together, their journey with sobriety, and how they’ve built security in their relationship, their finances, and their mutual support system.

Chicklet and Maleni reveal all this and so much more in another episode you can’t afford to miss!

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Audio: John Gurney

Guest:Chicklet + Maleni

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial 

Trading Secrets Steals & Deals!

OneSkin:

OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company-targeting cellular aging to keep your skin and scalp looking and acting younger for longer. For a limited time, you can try OneSkin with 15% off using code [TRADINGSECRETS] at oneskin.co 

Square: 

If you're starting a business, or running one that deserves better tools, Square helps you sell, manage, and grow without slowing down. Right now, you can get up to $200 off Square hardware at square.com/go/tradingsecrets 

Upwork:

Posting a job on Upwork is easy; with no cost to join, you can register, browse freelancer profiles, get help drafting a job post, or even book a consultation. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow.

Yubico:

Yubico’s mission is simple: make the internet safer for everyone. Their breakthrough product, the YubiKey, is a small but powerful hardware key that protects your online accounts from phishing and hacks with just one tap. Trusted by millions, YubiKeys work across hundreds of services, from email and social media to banking, without the hassle of codes or passwords.

Go to www.yubico.com/start to learn how to activate and set up your key.

250. Chicklet and Maleni: From dishwashing for $300/week to millions of followers making videos, BTS of what lead them to social media,

This week, Jason is joined by Angelo Keely, co-founder and CEO of Kion!

Jason and Angelo dive into the importance of protein and amino acids for energy, muscle, healthy aging, and just about everything in your body, how Angelo started the business in his garage and the root of the idea, how important quality marketing is, how to identify your customer, the power of protein and amino acids (and which one does more for you!), types of energy and impact of caffeine, and what to be weary of. 

Resources:

Get 20% off at getkion.com/tradingsecrets

International Society of Sports Nutrition

It’s an episode you can’t afford to miss! 

Host: Jason Tartick

Co-Host: David Arduin

Guest: Angelo Keely

Stay connected with the Trading Secrets Podcast! 

Instagram: @tradingsecretspodcast 

Youtube: Trading Secrets

Facebook: Join the Group

All Access: Free 30-Day Trial

More Than Money: Health is wealth with Kion CEO and co-founder Angelo Keely breaking down amino acids and proteins

Hlustaðu og lestu

Other podcasts you might like ...