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Exactly Right and iHeartPodcasts

Trust Me is a weekly interview podcast about cults, extreme belief, and the fine line between devotion and delusion—told through firsthand accounts from the people who lived it. Hosted by two women who’ve been in cults themselves, Lola Blanc and Meagan Elizabeth, the show features survivors from groups like Heaven’s Gate, the Manson Family, NXIVM, OneTaste and more–sharing personal stories of how they got in, how they got out, and everything in between.

Each week, they invite these guests alongside experts who can dive deep into seductive leaders, the darker aspects of organized religion, and the subtler shades of groupthink and the psychology of influence. Trust Me explores it all with unfiltered honesty, dark humor, and a lot of heart. This isn’t a sensationalized deep dive into cults—it’s a compassionate, first-person exploration of what it means to believe, to belong, and to break free. At the end of the day, wanting to believe in something bigger than yourself is one of the most human instincts there is.

Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

This week, the girls are joined by Anthony Cesar Duncan, an artist, mental health advocate, and survivor of ChatGPT psychosis. Anthony opens up about his descent into a psychotic episode, led by an unlikely new cult figure: ChatGPT. He describes how his episode began innocently enough, how the platform’s responses started to amplify his delusions and isolate him from his loved ones, and how quickly the line blurred between reality and the AI’s suggestions. What started as curiosity became obsession—and spiraled into a full-blown mental health crisis.
 
Anthony takes us inside the mindset of someone caught in a feedback loop with technology that seemed to understand him and want to help him—yet was ultimately leading him deeper into instability. He explains the ways people around him tried to intervene, why it was so difficult to break free, and what finally helped him begin to heal.
 
SOURCES
 
If you or a loved one are experiencing a mental health crisis, please contact: 
 
988 Lifeline
 
Call: 988
 
National Alliance on Mental Illness 
 
Call: 1-800-950-6264
 
Text: NAMI to 62640
 
 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Anthony Cesar Duncan: ChatGPT Psychosis and the Dangers of AI

Aaron Goldenberg, actor, comedian, and (hilarious) content creator, joins Lola and Meagan to talk about being gay as a Christian child, what it was like learning Bill Gothard’s IBLP homeschool curriculum as a boy, and how his parents discovered his queerness and sent him to conversion therapy.
 
He talks about Exodus International, a now-disbanded “ex-gay” Christian ministry that taught that you could heal your gayness (until its president apologized to the gay community and said it didn’t work), doubling down on his belief that he could force himself to be straight, and how getting sober finally forced him to confront the truth and accept himself for who he really was.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Aaron Goldenberg - Homeschool, Conversion Therapy, and Finally Coming Out

Journalist Sarah Stankorb comes on the show to talk about her book, Disobedient Women, and the deep dive she did on why a series of evangelical women in America began to leave their communities as the internet came into prominence. They discuss patriarchal teachings within cultures like the Quiverfull movement, including stories like Vyckie Garrison’s, who was pressured into having repeated pregnancies that defied her doctors and put her life at risk.

They also dive into figures like Bill Gothard, who built the IBLP curricula and created a system of mini-cults across the country, the many stories of sexual abuse that were covered up by various religious organizations, and how online communities helped women share stories, band together, and begin to speak out. Plus: how figures like Doug Wilson helped push Christian nationalism from the fringes into the political mainstream.
 
SOURCES:
 
Disobedient Women
 
Elle
 
Vice
 
Vice
 
Washtington Post
 
Cosmopolitan
 
Marie Claire

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sarah Stankorb - Quiverfull, Christian Nationalism, and Why Evangelical Women Are Leaving

Guests Erika Lantz and Elin Lantz Lesser join to discuss season 3 of their investigative podcast The Turning, which follows the journey of a young woman named Lindsay, a former member of a Christian group in Minnesota called River Road Fellowship. They talk about the background of the leader Victor Bernard, how Lindsay’s parents moved the family to the cult compound, and what it was like living there—with rapture drills that required the members to never venture far from the compound, a massive bonfire designed to destroy the members’ attachments to their pasts, and other forms of strict control. 
 
They discuss how Lindsay was selected as a teenager to be one of Victor’s ten “maidens,” a group of girls and women living next to his lodge who were subjected to coerced labor and eventually sexual exploitation in what Lindsay only later learned was meant to be a lifelong commitment, the escape plans she was making, and how glimpses of the outside world led her to finally leaving.
 
SOURCES: 
 
The Turning: River Road

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Erika Lantz & Elin Lantz Lesser - Book Burnings, Rapture Drills, & the River Road Fellowship

Journalist Jane Borden joins the girls to discuss her book Cults Like Us, a gripping investigation into how cultic thinking is woven into the fabric of American life. Jane delves into the radical roots of early Protestant settlers, how the deep-rooted American mythology of a strong rebel cowboy who can save us from the bad guys makes us more susceptible to demagogues and authoritarians, and why pronatalism is just another form of doomsdayism.
They talk about how fear of the end of the world, fear of not being good enough, and fear of “the other” influence us. They discuss everything from the bootstraps myth to mass marketing to self-help empires, and how the promise of salvation has shaped the American psyche more than we like to admit.

SOURCES:
Jane Borden
Cults Like Us: Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jane Borden - Cults Like Us: Puritans, Demagogues, and America’s Doomsday Obsession

Megan Elizabeth Cox–not to be confused with our Meagan Elizabeth–shares how she first started Gwen Shamblin’s weight loss program as a child, when her mom began listening to the cassette tapes in the 90s. She opens up about what it was like growing up in a family that was fixated on weight loss, how it felt meeting Shamblin, the high-haired woman behind the voice, and how the program evolved into the Remnant Fellowship, a full-fledged church centered around skinniness as righteousness.
Megan tells the girls about the level of control the church had over her eating and even her thoughts, with Bible study sessions that required the members to weigh themselves, how she drifted in and out of the church during dark times in her life, and what made her finally realize she needed to leave the group for good.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Megan Elizabeth Cox - The Remnant Fellowship, Gwen Shamblin, and the Worship of Skinny

Journalist Claire Hoffman joins us again, this time to discuss her new book Sister, Sinner: the unbelievable true story of Aimee Semple McPherson, a glamorous Pentecostal preacher who pioneered entertainment evangelism. McPherson was so famous in the 1920s she could have been a Kardashian.
Claire talks about how the early televangelist used theatrics and mass media to build an empire around her preaching–only to mysteriously disappear in 1926, leading to one of the most notorious court cases of the time. The girls unpack early 20th century fame, faith, scandal, and the dangers of worshipping cultural icons.

SOURCES:
Sister, Sinner

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Claire Hoffman - The Rise and Vanishing of Evangelist Megastar Aimee Semple McPherson

In Part 1 of our interview with journalist Claire Hoffman, Claire shares what it was like growing up in an Iowa trailer park community built around the Transcendental Meditation (or TM) movement and its charismatic leader, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi–whose followers included The Beatles. Claire shares what the daily routine was like in the TM community, how it felt believing every adult she knew could levitate, and the powerful mystique of Maharishi.
Plus, she tells how the fall of the Berlin Wall and her subscription to Cosmopolitan magazine helped lead to her eventual awakening about the guru being a mere mortal, and the book she wrote about that experience, Greetings From Utopia Park.

SOURCES:
Greetings From Utopia Park

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Claire Hoffman - Levitation, Meditation, and a Childhood in a Transcendental Meditation Trailer Park

Attorney Carol Merchasin didn’t set out to expose cults, but after investigating allegations about a high-control Buddhist organization and discovering that the abuse had run more rampant than she’d imagined, she became a lawyer and focused her practice on getting justice for survivors of cults and abusive groups.
 
Carol discusses the legal ins and outs of suing cults and spiritual leaders, where American law stands in recognizing coercion and human trafficking, and why the differences in ideologies between high-control groups really don’t matter. Plus: the patterns and red flags she’s learned to spot, why spiritual language is often used to disguise harm, and what to do if you get sued by your group for speaking out.
 
 
 
SOURCES:
 
BITE MODEL of Authoritarian Control 
 
Heartwood Center
 
McAllister Olivarius Law
 
For pro bono legal help, look up your state bar association for a directory of pro bono attorneys.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Carol Merchasin - The Cult Assassin: Suing High-Control Groups

Artist and writer Akina Cox returns to share more about her experience growing up in the Unification Church (also known as the Moonies), its physical punishment rituals, and where the church stands now. The girls then transition from the topic of her particular cult to a discussion on the cult-like patterns of the current American political landscape, and how to approach political disagreements with loved ones.
 
Akina also reflects on her article for Salon, where she explores how the Trump administration employs many of the same tactics used by Reverend Moon, and how high-control groups tend to choose a group to scapegoat for their problems. They discuss the demonization of immigrants and trans folks, the realities of ICE kidnappings, and how the failures of political leadership effectively addressing income inequality created an opening for demagogues to thrive.
 
 
 
SOURCES:
 
Akina Cox
 
Salon
 
How to Talk to Your Republican Uncle
 
The Atlantic
 
 
 
ORGANIZATIONS FOR OUTREACH AND RESISTANCE:
 
Ktown For All
 
CHIRLA
 
Unión del Barrio
 
LA Tenants Union
 
National Day Laborer Organizing Network (NDLON)

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Akina Cox - Part 2: The Moonies, ICE, and the Cult Tactics of Trump

Mubin Shaikh, deradicalized Islamic extremist and former security intelligence & counter-terrorism operative, discusses his upbringing balancing secular and Muslim life in Toronto, the party he threw as a young man that made him feel ashamed enough to become more deeply religious, and how an encounter with the Taliban pushed him toward radicalization. He also talks about the structure of Islam and his particular sect, the many complex factors that lead to extremism and terrorism, and the deep dive he did into understanding his own religion. Plus, next week: his process of deradicalization, and going undercover to disrupt a terrorist plot.
 

 
Check out our great sponsors!
 

 
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Trust Me is brought to you by BetterHelp! Visit BetterHelp.com/trust to get 10% off your first month!
 

 
Babbel: Get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to Babbel.com/trust 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Mubin Shaikh, Part 1: Islamic Extremism, Meeting the Taliban, and Getting Radicalized

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