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Pushkin Industries

Journalist and bestselling author Michael Lewis explores the figures in American life who rely on the public's trust, whether in sports, in business, in the courtroom, or on TV. What happens when that trust erodes and we can no longer agree on what's fair and what's not?

In the latest season of his podcast, Michael takes on America’s newest form of legalized gambling, sports betting, and how it’s changing what it means to be a player…a teenager…and most of all, a fan.

iHeartMedia is the exclusive podcast partner of Pushkin Industries.

Against the Rules with Michael Lewis: The Trial of Sam Bankman-Fried

Michael Lewis sits down with Billy Walters, one of the most famous sports bettors of all time. They talk about Walters' impoverished childhood in Kentucky, and his transformation from an auto dealer to a professional poker player in Las Vegas to a sobered-up millionaire who's been indicted five times.
 
For further reading: Gambler: Secrets from a Life at Risk by Billy Walters.

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Gambler Billy Walters on the Sharp's Life

On a visit to Las Vegas, Michael Lewis meets three old-school sports bookies. Chris Andrews, Jimmy Vaccaro, and Vinny Magliulo book bets and set odds at the South Point Hotel Casino. They talk about how they got started in Vegas, the origins of the prop bet, and why it's bad for business to limit smart bets.

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Vegas Sports Bookies on Old-School Betting

Just recently, Michael Lewis was a guest on the "Prof G" podcast with Scott Galloway. He talks about the rise of sports betting and why the consequences might be a "disaster" for US society. And the two discuss the subject of Lewis's latest book, "Going Infinite." 

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Michael Lewis on the Prof G Pod

Has betting based on inside intel on games gone down since sports gambling was legalized in the US? Not really, as Michael Lewis finds out. But what's gone up is misery for athletes. We hear from Atlanta Hawks forward Larry Nance, Jr. about the rage, threats and wheedling that pro athletes now endure. The NCAA, former Massachusetts governor Charlie Baker, is trying to protect student athletes on campus, while their friends all bet on them, often underaged. Overall, the “integrity landscape” for US sports looks more and more pot-holed by the day.
 
For further reading: NCAA sports wagering survey

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Episode 8: The Integrity Landscape

Michael Lewis gets a glimpse of sports gambling's future by talking with writers in Great Britain and Australia, where the industry is even more entrenched. But the US has its own peculiar history of failing to regulate dangerously addictive new products, and blaming the users instead. Especially when powerful industry advocates are able to pay scientists to sow doubt and delay the day of reckoning.
 
For further reading: 
Lying for Money: How Legendary Frauds Reveal the Workings of our World by Dan Davies
 
Crikey’s coverage on sports gambling in Australia: Punted
 
Patrick Radden Keefe’s Empire of Pain: The Story of the Sackler Family and Purdue Pharma
 
Merchants of Doubt by Naomi Oreskes and Erik Conway.

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Episode 9: Framing the Gambler

Perhaps you have someone in your life who’s prone to sports gambling. Michael Lewis has someone. So he comes up with a scheme to “inoculate” his 17-year-old son against the lure of placing bets online. All the while, Lewis tries to craft the perfect “master class” for would-be gamblers to understand the dangers of what they might be getting themselves into.
 
Here's his reading list:
 
The Logic of Sports Betting by Matt Davidow and Ed Miller
 
Stephen Pinker’s Rationality: What It Is, Why It Seems Scarce, Why It Matters
 
Weapons of Math Destruction by Cathy O’Neil
 
 

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Episode 10: “Anybody Can Win, but Everybody’s Gonna Lose”

As an anthropologist, Natasha Schüll spent more than a decade doing field work in Vegas casinos, especially among the slot machine addicts. She tells Michael Lewis why many of those who play slots actually hate to win. And she talks about how the digital overhaul of Vegas has made all forms of gambling, including sports gambling, more like slots.
 
For further reading: Addiction by Design: Machine Gambling in Las Vegas by Natasha Schüll.

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Natasha Schüll on the Antisocial Lure of Gambling

Michael Lewis invites over Yale psychology professor Dr. Laurie Santos, host of The Happiness Lab at Pushkin, for a chat about what scientific research has to tell us about sports fandom, teenagers, and gambling.
 
You can sign up for The Happiness Lab newsletter here.

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Dr. Laurie Santos on Group Psychology, the Teen Brain, and Happiness

Is anyone trying to regulate sports gambling on the federal level in the US? In the fall of 2024, Connecticut Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal introduced a bill with New York Congressman Paul Tonko. The SAFE Bet would restrict sports gambling ads and would help fund more gambling addiction treatment, among other things. Blumenthal speaks with Michael Lewis about why he sees sports gambling as a public health disaster in the making.
 
Further reading: Blumenthal’s press release on the SAFE Bet Act.

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Sen. Richard Blumenthal on the SAFE Bet Act

Get ready for the launch of Michael Lewis's first podcast, where he takes listeners from student-loan call centers to the courts of Uzbekistan to the new trading hubs of Wall Street (in New Jersey). What happens when fairness can't be enforced?

 
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Introducing Against the Rules with Michael Lewis

Michael Lewis interviews the Co-Founders of Pushkin Industries, Malcolm Gladwell and Jacob Weisberg, as part of Dell Technologies Small Business Podference, Hear what it's like to start a business with a close friend and how Pushkin Industries is navigating the COVID-19 crisis.

Find more episodes from the Small Business Podference at https://delltechnologiespodference.com/.

 
 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Against the Rules Presents: Michael Lewis in Conversation with Malcolm Gladwell and Jacob Weisberg

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