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The Verge

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

Decoder with Nilay Patel

My guest today is Bridget McCormack, former chief justice for the Michigan Supreme Court and now president and CEO of the American Arbitration Association. For the past several years, Bridget and her team have been developing an AI-assisted arbitration platform called the AI Arbitrator. 

So I sat down with her to talk about how the tool works, the pros and cons of automating parts of the arbitration process, and the bigger picture questions around institutional trust, justice, and the future of law. 

Links: 

 All rise for JudgeGPT | The Verge

 Why do lawyers keep using ChatGPT? | The Verge

 Judge berates AI entrepreneur for using a generated ‘lawyer’ | The Verge

 Judge slams lawyers for ‘bogus AI-generated research’ | The Verge

 LexisNexis CEO says the AI law era is already here | Decoder

 ChatGPT can be a disaster for lawyers — Robin AI wants to fix that | Decoder

 Considerations In building guardrails for AI use In arbitration | Law360

 The AI Arbitrator: What it is, what it isn’t, and where it’s going | Law360

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Chris Jereza and Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The surprising case for AI judges

Siemens is one of those absolutely giant, extremely important, fairly opaque companies we love to dig into on Decoder. At a very basic, reductive level, Siemens makes the hardware and software that let other companies run and automate their stuff.

We spent a lot of time talking about what happens to jobs when Siemens automates everything — and what happens to a company like Siemens when the free trade era we’re used to gets turned on its head.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Siemens Energy CEO attends Trump meeting at Davos | Reuters

 PepsiCo, Siemens, Nvidia announce digital twin collaboration | PepsiCo

 Siemens spins off Healthineers majority stake | Reuters

 Siemens USA to train 200,000 electricians by 2030 | Siemens

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Siemens CEO's mission to automate everything

Today, we’re going to talk about reality, and whether we can label photos and videos to protect our shared understanding of the world around us. To do this, I sat down with Verge reporter Jess Weatherbed, who covers creative tools for us — a space that’s been totally upended by generative AI. 

We’ve been talking about how the photos and videos taken by our phones are getting more and more processed for years on The Verge. Here in 2026, we’re in the middle of a full-on reality crisis, as fake and manipulated ultra-believable images and videos flood onto social platforms at scale. So Jess and I discussed the limitations of AI labeling standards like C2PA, and why social media execs like Instagram boss Adam Mosseri are now sounding the alarm. 

Read the full transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 This system can sort real pictures from AI fakes — why aren’t we using it? | The Verge

 You can’t trust your eyes to tell you what’s real, says Instagram | The Verge

 Instagram’s boss is missing the point about AI on the platform | The Verge

 Sora is showing us how broken deepfake detection is | The Verge

 Reality still matters | The Verge

 No one’s ready for this | The Verge

 What is a photo, @WhiteHouse edition | The Verge

 Google Gemini is getting better at identifying AI fakes | The Verge

 Let’s compare Apple, Google & Samsung’s definitions of 'photo’ | The Verge

 The Pixel 8 and the what-is-a-photo apocalypse | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Reality is losing the deepfake war

Today, I’m talking with Allan Thygesen, who is the CEO of Docusign. You know Docusign, it’s the platform that lets you sign stuff online. It turns out 7,000 people work there, which is one of those facts floating around that’s always felt like perfect Decoder bait. What are all those people doing? And what kind of product roadmap does a company like Docusign even need?

Alan has only been CEO of Docusign for three years, so he has some interesting perspective on where the company was, the changes he wanted to make, and where he thinks this is all going. Hint: it involves AI. 

Read the full transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Docusign's AI will help you understand what you're signing | Fast Company

 Docusign on ‘transformational journey,’ CEO Says | Bloomberg

 How Docusign Is modernizing the age-old business contract | Barron’s

 Docusign unveils next-gen eSignature with AI | Docusign

 Docusign brings its contract AI to ChatGPT | Docusign

 Interview with Docusign CEO Allan Thygesen | Motley Fool (Podcast)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Docusign's CEO on the dangers of trusting AI to read, and write, your contracts

Today, we’re talking about the bidding war over Warner Bros. Discovery, which is the biggest story in the entertainment industry right now, and for good reason. It has pretty much everything you could want in a buzzy Hollywood saga — big names, big money, and big drama.

To help me make sense of it all, I wanted to talk with Julia Alexander, a Verge alum and now media correspondent at Puck News who’s one of the best in the business at analyzing corporate strategy, Hollywood, and what’s next in entertainment. Julia really helped me break down why Netflix is the clear front runner to acquire Warner Bros., why David Ellison of Paramount Skydance is so desperate to win, and, perhaps most importantly, how the tech industry fits into this puzzle.

Links: 

 Netflix is buying Warner Bros. for $83 billion | The Verge

 Paramount launches hostile $108 billion bid to snatch Warner | The Verge

 Netflix revises Warner Bros. bid to an all-cash offer | The Verge

 Why Netflix needs Warner Bros. | Puck News

 The Warner Bros. bidding war Is over | Bloomberg

 The Son King of Hollywood | Vulture

 FCC Chair: ‘Legitimate competition concerns’ with Netflix’s Warner deal | Variety

 Netflix's Ted Sarandos to testify at antitrust hearing over Warner deal | Variety

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Netflix is eating Hollywood — because it has to

Experian is one of those giant multinationals convoluted enough to have multiple CEOs all over the world, so first I asked Alex Lintner, Experian's CEO of technology and software solutions, to dig into the classic Decoder questions and explain how all of that even works.

He oversees big operations like security and privacy, and now, of course, AI. If you want to participate in the modern economy — rent an apartment, buy a car, get a job, etc — you’re part of Experian’s ecosystem, whether you like it or not. At its heart, Experian’s core service is data about people and the choices they make. And this extremely valuable data weirdly makes Experian a part of your life — a life that becomes much smoother if the data the company collects about you tells a good story. 

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. 

Links: 

 Roughly half of Americans are knowledgeable about personal finance | Pew Research

 How Americans view data privacy | Pew Research

 Consumer voices on credit reports and scores | CFPB

 Mercedes-Benz CEO Ola Källenius on Decoder | The Verge

 The Palantir app ICE uses to find neighborhoods to raid | 404 Media

 T-Mobile customers exposed in major Experian breach (2015) | The Verge

 All the news about the Equifax breach | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Experian's tech chief defends credit scores: 'We're not Palantir'

Grok, the chatbot made by Elon Musk’s xAI, is able to make all manner of AI-generated images on demand, including non-consensual intimate images of women and minors. It's the kind of "controversy" that would have completely sunk a platform five or 10 years ago, but now it seems clear that Elon wants Grok to be able to do this.

A lot of people feel like someone should be able to do something about a one-click harassment machine like this. But who has that power, and what they can do with it, is a deeply complicated question,tied up in the thorny mess of history that is content moderation and the legal precedents that underpin it. So I invited Riana Pfefferkorn, from the Stanford Institute for Human-Centered Artificial Intelligence, to come talk me through it.

Links: 

 Grok’s gross AI deepfakes problem | The Verge

 Grok is undressing children — can the law stop it? | The Verge

 Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai are cowards | The Verge

 Senate passes a bill to let nonconsensual deepfake victims sue | The Verge

 EU looks to ban nudification apps following Grok outrage | Politico

 Grok flooded X with millions of sexualized images | The New York Times

 The Supreme Court just upended internet law | The Verge

 Mother of Elon Musk’s son sues xAI over sexual deepfake images | AP

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why nobody's stopping Grok

We’re back to start the year with a very special live interview with Razer CEO Min-Liang Tan, which we taped in front of a terrific audience at Brooklyn Bowl in Las Vegas during CES. At this year’s show, Razer made headlines for something it calls Project Ava, an AI companion that has a physical presence in the real world, as an anime hologram that sits in a jar on your desk. It’s powered by, you guessed it, Elon Musk’s Grok. 

There are a whole lot of choices bundled up in all of that, as well as Razer’s decision to go all-in on AI at a moment when the gaming community is outright rejecting it. So Min and I really got into it. I think you’ll have a lot to think about with this one. 

Links: 

 Razer is making an AI anime waifu hologram for your desk | The Verge

 Razer thinks you’d rather have AI headphones instead of glasses | The Verge

 Baldur’s Gate 3 studio says it won’t use AI for concept art or writing | The Verge

 In 2025, AI became a lightning rod for gamers and devs | The Verge

 Razer plans $600M push to capture 'untapped' AI gaming demand | Bloomberg

 Replika CEO says it’s okay if we end up marrying AI chatbots | Decoder

 Lawsuits blame ChatGPT for suicides and harmful delusions | NYT

 Inside three longterm relationships with AI chatbots | NYT

 Torment Nexus | Know Your Meme

 The future of gaming is AI | Razer (Instagram)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Razer CEO on AI in game dev, Grok, and anime waifus

Hey everyone, it’s Nilay. We’re settling back in here after the winter break and CES, and we’ll have new episodes for you starting next Monday. In the meantime, we wanted to highlight one of our favorites from last year: an interview with journalist and author Megan Greenwell about her book Bad Company: Private Equity and the Death of the American Dream.

My conversation with Megan last year was extremely illuminating as to why private equity does what it does to industries like healthcare, media and real estate — and just how deeply it's affecting the everyday lives of Americans everywhere. It's a really great conversation that feels just as timely today as it did last summer. Enjoy. 

Links: 

 Bad Company | HarperCollins

 How private equity kills companies and communities | Decoder

 Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R’ Us | Decoder

 Private equity makes its first college sports play | Axios

 Private equity Is gutting America — and getting away with it | NYT

 I was fired from Deadspin for refusing to ‘stick to sports’ | NYT

 Will private equity be the next ‘Big Short’? | Marketplace

 The profit-obsessed monster destroying American ERs | Vox

 Why your vet bill is so high | The Atlantic

 The investment firms leave behind a barren wasteland’ | Politico

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rewind: How private equity kills companies and communities

We’ve got something special for you today. It’s my friend Hank Green, longtime YouTuber, science educator, and viral TikTok star, interviewing Dropout CEO Sam Reich. 

Hank did this episode as a guest host over the summer, and it’s a fan favorite, bringing together two internet personalities that’ve known each other for a very long time and who have a lot of inside knowledge about how the internet, Hollywood, and entertainment all intertwine. 

Links: 

 Dropout’s Sam Reich on business, comedy, and keeping the internet weird | Decoder

 How Dropout broke through in 2025 | AV Club

 Dropout CEO on launching ‘Superfan’ tier, crossing 1M subscribers | Variety

 How CollegeHumor reinvented itself for the new internet age | People

 CollegeHumor shaped online comedy. What went wrong? [2020] | Wired

 ‘I believe in this enough to try to do it myself’ [2020] | Digiday

 Jacob Wysocki needed a minute to process that Game Changer | Vulture

 
Game Changer smartly weaponizes its online following | Mashable

 Vimeo CEO Philip Moyer is betting on the human touch | Decoder

 Vimeo to be acquired by Bending Spoons for $1.38B | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dropout CEO Sam Reich on the business of subscription comedy

Basecamp CEO Jason Fried talks with Recode's Kara Swisher about his most recent book, It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work, which he co-wrote with his business partner David Heinemeier Hansson.
In this episode: How Basecamp got started; why chat apps like Slack and Basecamp's own Campfire are bad for productivity; the things that make work crazy, including access to coworkers' calendars, ASAP-response culture and codependent departments; why Basecamp does not set any goals internally other than "be profitable"; how Silicon Valley's "world domination mindset" stresses workers out; which tech exec would win in a fight?; the fakeness of fancy office perks; the problems with serial entrepreneurship, best practices and intentional sleep deprivation; "hacking anything is stupid"; why venture capital destroys more businesses than it helps; and how tech companies are trying to avoid becoming Philip Morris.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Recode Decode: Basecamp CEO Jason Fried

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