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The Curiosity Department

Design Better co-hosts Eli Woolery and Aarron Walter explore the intersection of design, technology, and the creative process through conversations with guests across many creative fields, helping you hone your craft, unlock your creativity, and learn the art of collaboration.
Whether you’re design curious or a design pro, Design Better is guaranteed to inspire and inform. Vanity Fair calls Design Better, “sharp, to the point, and full of incredibly valuable information for anyone looking to better understand how to build a more innovative world.”

Design Better

Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/david-kelley-creative-confidence
To celebrate 1 million listens to the Design Better Podcast, we're rewinding to our episode with David Kelley, Founder of IDEO and the Stanford d.school, in honor of David just receiving the Edison Award for Innovation. And we're sending a special thanks to YOU for listening and helping us reach this 1 million milestone. We're tremendously grateful to you, your friends, and colleagues for tuning in and joining the journey with us.
David Kelley doesn’t like to claim to have come up with the term design thinking, even though most people would say he did. But regardless of who coined it, as founder of IDEO and the Stanford d.school he has been one of the most influential proponents of design thinking, and human-centered design in general.
When it comes to bringing together engineering, product, and design teams early in the design process, and aligning those teams towards a common goal, design thinking has few equals, and should be part of the toolkit for every product driven company.
In this episode, Eli and Aarron speak with David about what it takes to bring designers and engineers together, how our workspace influences our work, and how we can encourage creative confidence in our companies.
Enjoy the chat and cheers to 1 million listens to the Design Better Podcast. Thank you so much for listening.

Rewind: David Kelley, Founder of IDEO and the Stanford d.school, on Creative Confidence and Aligning Teams

Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/tony-fadell-how-to-build-the-future
For many of us, being the co-creator of two of the most transformative products of the early 21st century—the iPod and iPhone—would be enough for one career. But Tony Fadell was just getting started.
After his time at Apple, Tony went on to start Nest Labs, known for its smart home products like thermostats and fire alarms, which sold to Google for over 3 billion dollars. He’s authored more than 300 patents, and with his newest venture, the Build Collective, he’s investing time and money to help engineers and scientists build a greener world.
He’s also written a book about what he’s learned over the years called Build. In this interview, we chat with him about what some of his early failures taught him, why the best teams are multigenerational, and how to deal with the different types of—for lack of a better word—a*holes you might encounter in your career.
Bio
Tony Fadell started his 30+ year Silicon Valley career at General Magic, the most influential startup nobody has ever heard of. Then he went on to make the iPod and iPhone, start Nest and create the Nest Learning Thermostat. Throughout his career Tony has authored more than 300 patents. He now leads the investment and advisory firm Build Collective, which invests its money and time to help engineers and scientists build a greener world, in which every person enjoys a longer, richer life.
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If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com
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This episode is brought to you by:
Fable: Build inclusive products: https://makeitfable.com/designbetter/ Freehand by InVision: The intelligent whiteboard that's half the price of Miro and Mural: https://freehandapp.com/
Methodical Coffee: Roasted, blended, brewed, served and perfected by verified coffee nerds: https://methodicalcoffee.com/ (use code "designbetter" for 10% off of your order). Athletic Greens: Build a foundation for better health: http://athleticgreens.com/designbetter

Tony Fadell: iPhone inventor on how to build the future

Jason Giles is tuned into the habits of successful product design teams, not only because he’s been leading them for 15 years, but also because his team at UserTesting makes essential tools used by top design teams around the world. Jason thinks of the collaboration process in his team as similar to a jazz band where improvisation and exploration go hand-in-hand. We’re anxious to learn more.
We’re excited to share this sponsored bonus episode, recorded live in Austin at The Human Insight Summit (THiS)—as UserTesting helps designers and product teams gain shared insight—seeing and hearing how another person engages with the world around them and taking in their perspective.
Learn more about UserTesting
Bio
As VP of Product Design at UserTesting, Jason leads a team of designers, writers, and researchers across the US, Canada, and UK with the mission to enable real human insight and lead a movement for empathy.
Jason Giles began his professional career as a designer at Microsoft, where he effectively “grew up” alongside the UX discipline itself. Having actively participated in that evolution, Jason transitioned to design management where he has focused on building teams with great cultures that deliver awesome product experiences.
Visit our Substack to view the video of the interview: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jason-giles

Bonus Episode: Jason Giles, VP of Product Design at UserTesting, live in Austin

Alastair Simpson is accustomed to adaptation. The first half of his life was spent in the pursuit of a professional football career (or soccer as we call it in the States). But things didn’t go as expected, and he found himself searching for a new path in life.
Football taught him discipline and to focus on excellence, traits that transferred well into a career in design. He’s led design teams at Atlassian and today, he’s VP of Design at Dropbox.
We spoke with Alastair about how he applies design principles to parenting, the role craft plays in making great products, and creating a work environment that supports the creative process.
Visit our Substack to access the full episode: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/alastair-simpson
Bio
Alastair Simpson reports to the CEO and serves on the Executive team at Dropbox, where he leads the design team across all creative disciplines, including Brand, Product Design, Research, Content Design, and Operations. He also co-led, designed, and implemented Dropbox's transition to a Virtual-First working model. Previously, Alastair was Head of Design at Atlassian, where he played a key role in scaling the design team from 20 to over 300.
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Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
Upgrade to paid
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Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwook, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer.
Wix Studio: With Wix Studio, agencies and enterprises can create, develop and manage exceptional web projects with hyper efficiency. And if you're worried about the learning curve eating into time you don't have, don't be. Wix Studio is intuitive by design, so your entire team can hit the ground running. For your next project, check out wixstudio.com.
Wine Access: We love wine, but often feel overwhelmed by the options out there. But we recently joined Wine Access who not only ship to your door some of the world’s most inspiring wines, they also educate subscribers with full color information cards that accompany each bottle. You should totally join The Waitlist Wine Club. Just visit wineaccess.com/waitlist and use Promo Code: DESIGNBETTER for $25 off your first shipment.
If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com

Alastair Simpson: From professional soccer to leading design at DropBox

Hi folks!
We hope you’re having a wonderful holiday season, and have plenty of opportunities to relax and spend time with friends and family. This week we’re rewinding to one of our favorite episodes with Jonathan Hoefler, the legendary type designer. Enjoy the episode, and we’ll see you in the New Year!
Find the full episode and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/rewind-jonathan-hoefler
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It’s still not too late for a last-minute gift for the creative people in your life. Why not give the gift of education and inspiration by with a year-long subscription to Design Better Premium? We’ve even made a 🎁 handy gift card that you can send virtually, or print out and mail, or gift in person.
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Chances are you have a few fonts on your computer designed by Jonathan Hoefler. Since 1991, Apple has included Hoefler Text on every Mac. Ideal Sans, Knockout, Archer, Verlag, and Sentinel—are a few more of Hoefler’s well known typefaces —each is steeped in history and timelessly beautiful. It’s no wonder that Jonathan was featured in the Netflix series Abstract, which explores design and creativity, as he is truly a typography legend.
As part of our series on design history, we talk with Jonathan about his typographic influences, his philosophical views on the value of presentation and why he views entrepreneurship as an invitation, and some of the themes in his work like “Unfinished Business” and “Conservation and Preservation.”
Bio
Jonathan Hoefler (pronounced "HEFF-ler") is a typeface designer, typographer, writer, and inventor, and the creator of some of the world's most influential fonts such as Gotham, Knockout, Mercury, Sentinel, and Hoefler Text. He founded the distinguished type foundry Hoefler&Co in 1989, which he sold in 2021, after publishing more than eleven hundred original tyepfaces. He's currently enjoying a sabbatical, and writing about typography and visual culture on his website, JonathanHoefler.com.

Rewind: Jonathan Hoefler: Typography legend on type history, philosophy, and entrepreneurship

Our podcast network, The Curiosity Department, has a new show called Reconsidering.
Though design and your work are a big part of who you are, you are so much more. Reconsidering is a show hosted by designers that aims to bring fresh eyes to the important things in life. Co-hosts Meredith Black, formerly at Pinterest and Figma, Bob Baxley, formerly at Apple and Thoughtspot, and Aarron Walter explore topics like how to build a fulfilling career, navigate big life changes like illness and death, and we talk with experts about the skills you need to cultivate to become the healthy, well adjusted adult we all want to be.
You can learn more about Reconsidering and subscribe to the show at Reconsidering.org. But to give you a taste, we’re sharing an episode here. Bob, Meredith, and Aarron talked to Brad Stuhlberg, who writes about excellence, resilience, performance, and well-being. His latest book, Mastering Change, is a New York Times best-seller and a great read as we enter the new year with big goals for ourselves. Brad’s in depth research and lucid guidance made an impression on us, and we know it will do the same for you. 
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Like it or not, change is inevitable. Your career, relationships, body, health, mood are all in constant motion. We can fight it but it’s unproductive and leads to suffering. 
Our pal Brad Stulberg is back on the show to help us look at change differently. His new book Master of Change: How To Excel When Everything Is Changing - Including You is full of deeply researched wisdom from science and philosophy that will help you become more resilient and adaptable.

About Brad Stulberg
Brad Stulberg researches, writes, and coaches on health, well-being, and sustainable excellence. He is the bestselling author of The Practice of Groundedness and co-author of Peak Performance. Stulberg regularly contributes to the New York Times, and his work has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, The New Yorker, Sports Illustrated, Outside Magazine, Forbes, and other outlets. He also serves as the co-host of The Growth Equation podcast and is on faculty at the University of Michigan’s Graduate School of Public Health. In his coaching practice, he works with executives, entrepreneurs, physicians, and athletes on their mental skills and overall well-being. He lives in Asheville, North Carolina.

Reconsidering: Mastering change with Brad Stulberg

There aren’t many kids who start a record label when they’re 12 years old. Or play piano professionally at the age of six. But our guest today, Marcus “Bellringer” Bell, is the kind of polymath that did those things, and went on to create a successful career in the music industry, as a producer and composer who has worked with musicians like Nicki Minaj and Snoop Dogg.
Marcus has also created one of the first AI-driven artists, fusing his own musical skills with GenAI persona Rayvn Lyte. We talk with Marcus about what inspired him to do this, as well as the ethics of AI-generated music. We also discuss his creative process, and how he manages to fit in creative time amidst raising a family and other domestic duties.
Visit our Substack for bonus episode content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/marcus-bell
Bio
Marcus “Bellringer” Bell is an American music producer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, and entrepreneur who has collaborated with global superstars like Nicki Minaj, Snoop Dogg, and Timbaland, and whose productions have been performed by Beyoncé. As CEO of Bellringer Productions LLC, he manages a catalog of over 30,000 songs, mentors artists, and has authored an Amazon #1 best seller on musician branding. Beyond music, he is a pioneering AI technologist and crypto investor, launching viral AI music character Ravyn Lyte and teaching communities to leverage AI and crypto through his Wealth and Impact AI course. Raised in a family that championed excellence, Bell honed his craft at Berklee College of Music before working with major labels and ultimately starting multiple ventures. He continues to give keynote speeches worldwide and remains dedicated to empowering people to unlock their fullest potential.
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Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
Upgrade to paid
***
Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer.
DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase.
If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com

Marcus Bell: Producer and songwriter for Nicki Minaj, Snoop Dogg, and Timbaland on music and creativity in the age of AI

As designers, we sometimes get caught up in our egos. I’m the creative one on the team. I’m the one who should have the final say on these designs. I’m misunderstood, and I feel like I’m always having to teach people a new language.
Find full show notes and bonus content on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/scott-berkun-why-design-is-hard
Author Scott Berkun has a new book called Why Design is Hard, which dives into why this “ego trap” limits designers' effectiveness in their roles. We welcome him back on the show to discuss this new book, and also discuss how designers can learn to navigate organizational power structures and gain more influence over decisions that affect their work, how the myth of the “design hero” shapes young designers entering the field, and why design schools often fail to prepare students for the real-world dynamics of organizational culture and power.
Bio
Scott Berkun is a bestselling author and popular speaker on UX design, innovation, leading teams, public speaking and other subjects. He’s published nine books, including How Design Makes The World, The Myths of Innovation, Confessions of a Public Speaker, and The Year Without Pants. His work has appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Forbes, The Wall Street Journal, The Economist, The Guardian, Wired magazine, USA Today, Fast Company, National Public Radio, CNN, NPR, MSNBC and other media. His popular blog is at scottberkun.com and he tweets at @berkun.
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Premium Episodes on Design Better
This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
Upgrade to paid
***
Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer.
DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase.
If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com

Scott Berkun: Why Design is Hard

We live in an era where the boundaries are beginning to blur between roles like designers and developers. Generative AI tools are making it easier for designers to code quick prototypes, and for developers to wireframe and create first-pass UI’s for applications.
Find bonus content and more on our Substack: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jenny-blackburn
So we thought it would be fascinating to talk with Jenny Blackburn, VP of UX at Google for Gemini, about the many ways that GenAI can improve our workflows. We also speak with Jenny about how experimental tools like NotebookLM play a role in the roadmap for Gemini, how they get feedback from their users, and the skills designers need to be successful in the era of AI.
Bio
Jenny Blackburn is the Vice President of User Experience (UX) at Google for Gemini Experiences & Google Assistant, where she leads cross-functional teams in shaping engaging, intuitive products used by millions worldwide. With over two decades of experience at leading technology firms—including Apple and Amazon—she has built a reputation for championing design excellence and user-centric innovation. Jenny is known for fostering collaborative, diverse environments and delivering impactful solutions that blend creativity, accessibility, and strategic thinking to drive exceptional user experiences.
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Premium Episodes on Design Better
This is a premium episode on Design Better. We release two premium episodes per month, along with two free episodes for everyone. ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
Upgrade to paid
***
Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer.
DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase.
***
If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com

Jenny Blackburn: Google's VP of UX for Gemini on how generative AI can improve our workflows

Design sprints have become a staple of the creative process at companies around the world and an indispensable tool in the pursuit of innovation. We owe a debt of thanks to Jake Knapp and his former colleagues at Google Ventures (now known as GV) who pioneered the design sprint.
Visit our Substack for bonus content and more: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/jake-knapp-click
There is one gap that design sprints have not entirely addressed, though. What do you do if you’re starting a new product or company from scratch? That is the subject of Jake Knapp and co-author John Zeratsky’s newest book, Click: How to make what people want. Jake lays out the elements of what he calls a “foundation sprint” in this book.
We chat with Jake about what makes a foundation sprint different than a design sprint, and some examples from the book of companies that have used foundation sprints effectively. We also talk to Jake about his decision to start Character, a VC fund aimed at helping startups at seed stage with capital and sprints, and the qualities that they look for in their founders when deciding to invest.
Pre-order "Click"
Bio
Jake Knapp is a New York Times bestselling author and co-founder of Character.
Previously, Jake built products like Microsoft Encarta and Gmail, co-founded Google Meet, and invented the Design Sprint. He has coached hundreds of teams at places like Miro, Slack, LEGO, IDEO, and NASA on product strategy and time management, and is a guest instructor at Harvard Business School.
This is Jake’s third appearance on Design Better. In his first interview with us, he discusses Sprint, and in his second interview he talks about his (and John Zeratsky’s) book Make Time.
Books & links mentioned

Ten things we know to be true

The Making of Prince of Persia

The rest is history podcast

Met opera on demand

https://jakek.medium.com/

***
Premium Episodes on Design Better
This ad-supported episode is available to everyone. If you’d like to hear it ad-free, upgrade to our premium subscription, where you’ll get an additional 2 ad-free episodes per month (4 total). ✨New benefits: Premium subscribers also get access to the documentary Design Disruptors and our growing library of books, as well as our monthly AMAs with former guests, ad-free episodes, discounts and early access to workshops, and our monthly newsletter The Brief that compiles salient insights, quotes, readings, and creative processes uncovered in the show.
Upgrade to paid
***
Visiting the links below is one of the best ways to support our show:
Masterclass: MasterClass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200+ of the world's best. People like Steph Curry, Paul Krugman, Malcolm Gladwell, Dianne Von Furstenberg, Margaret Atwood, Lavar Burton and so many more inspiring thinkers share their wisdom in a format that is easy to follow and can be streamed anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV, or even in audio mode. MasterClass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to http://masterclass.com/designbetter for the current offer.
DUER: Eli and I are busy people. When we’re not in the studio producing the podcast and publishing new articles, we’re often doing something active—building, cooking, or on an adventure with family. Work and life blend together, and DU/ER makes clothing for people like us. DUER creates performance denim and lifestyle apparel that is made for doing. Check out DUER’s flagship stores in LA or Denver, or order now at shopduer.com/DESIGNBETTER. When you use our exclusive URL, you’ll get 20% off your first purchase.
If you're interested in sponsoring the show, please contact us at: sponsors@thecuriositydepartment.com
If you'd like to submit a guest idea, please contact us at: contact@thecuriositydepartment.com

Jake Knapp: Click—How to make what people want

Show notes: https://designbetterpodcast.com/p/vas-natarajan
There isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to scaling design, but there are similarities between fast-growing companies that prime them for lasting success.
In this episode, Accel Partners’ Vas Natarajan talks about effective ways design leaders can operationalize hiring and scaling. He also discusses the hallmarks of a healthy team at any growth stage, what designers and developers can to do collaborate better, and why storytelling is key to growing a company.
“Storytelling capability—especially at the founding stages—can really make the difference between something that gets up and off the ground and something that doesn’t.”
Listen as Eli and Aarron chat with Vas about design’s role in making companies successful, the importance of balancing data with customer insights, and more.

Vas Natarajan: Hallmarks of a healthy team and better designer/developer partnerships

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