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WNYC Studios

The Peabody Award-winning On the Media podcast is your guide to examining how the media sausage is made. Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger examine threats to free speech and government transparency, cast a skeptical eye on media coverage of the week’s big stories and unravel hidden political narratives in everything we read, watch and hear.

On the Media

For decades, the United States backed efforts to achieve a two-state solution—in which Israel would exist side by side with the Palestinian state, with both states recognizing each other’s claim to contested territory. The veteran negotiators Hussein Agha, representing Palestine, and Robert Malley, an American diplomat, played instrumental roles in that long effort, including the critical Camp David summit of 2000. But, in their new book, “Tomorrow Is Yesterday,” they conclude that they were part of a charade. There was never any way that a two-state solution could satisfy either of the parties, Agha and Malley tell The New Yorker Radio Hour's David Remnick in an interview. “A waste of time is almost a charitable way to look at it,” Malley notes bitterly. “At the end of that thirty-year-or-so period, the Israelis and Palestinians are in a worse situation than before the U.S. got so heavily invested.” The process, appealing to Western leaders and liberals in Israel, was geared to “find the kind of solutions that have a technical outcome, that are measurable, and that can be portrayed by lines on maps,” Agha says. “It completely discarded the issue of emotions and history. You can’t be emotional. You have to be rational. You have to be cool. But rational and cool has nothing to do with the conflict.”

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

David Remnick: How The Two State Solution Ended in Disaster

The Supreme Court has returned to the bench and is poised to hear major cases on tariffs and federal firings. On this week’s On the Media, how a century-old legal theory may help us understand how the highest court handles Trump’s second administration. Plus, meet the Ellisons, who are buying up American media like the Vanderbilts collected railroads.

[02:26] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Greg Sargent, a staff writer at The New Republic and the host of the podcast “The Daily Blast,” on Stephen Miller’s plan to normalize President Trump’s authoritarian moves.

[13:37] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with Pema Levy, a reporter at Mother Jones, to discuss a theory on the two-track justice system in Nazi Germany, and why one justice is warning that the U.S. Supreme Court could recreate it.

[34:54] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Jake Lahut, a reporter for Wired covering the White House, about the Ellison family–America’s newest media magnates–and what their reign might mean for all of us.

Further reading / listening:

 • “
Inside Stephen Miller’s Secret Plan to Normalize Trump’s Dictator Rule, • ” by Greg Sargent
 • “
The ‘Dual State’ Theory Was Invented to Describe Nazis. The Supreme Court Could Take Us There • ,” by Pema Levy
 • “
Larry Ellison Is a ‘Shadow President’ in Donald Trump’s America • ,” by Jake Lahut

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Authoritarianism, but Make It Look Normal. Plus, the Family Taking Over American Media.

This week, “Monster: The Ed Gein Story” is the most watched show on Netflix. It’s a dramatized retelling of the life of the serial killer who inspired “Psycho” and “The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.” The “Monster” franchise, which includes two earlier seasons about Jeffrey Dahmer and Lyle and Erik Menendez, is one of Netflix’s splashiest hits – the Dahmer season is still the fourth-most viewed English language show in the history of the platform. And the true crime obsession only grows each year. On Netflix last year, 15 of the top 20 documentaries were true crime docs, compared to just six in 2020. 

But what does it mean for the subjects of these documentaries, that Americans endlessly crave stories about murder and bloodshed and terror? John J. Lennon is a contributing editor for Esquire and writes frequently for New York Review of Books and the New York Times. This week, he spoke to host Brooke Gladstone from Sing Sing Correctional Facility, where he’s serving his 24th year of his 28-year-to-life sentence for murder, drug sales, and gun possession. They spoke about his new book, The Tragedy of True Crime, what it was like to watch himself get featured in a true crime documentary, and why he wants to upend the typical 'true crime' narratives of good vs. evil. 

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

What's Wrong with True Crime?

This week, President Trump said he plans to use the military against America's "enemy within." On this week’s On the Media, how Trump’s rhetoric can obscure the real limits to his powers. Plus, how Humphrey Bogart betrayed the ideals of his most celebrated film.

[01:00] Host Micah Loewinger sits down for an extended conversation with Jamelle Bouie, columnist at The New York Times. They unpack the unprecedented Quantico meeting, the importance of keeping an eye on history, and why Trump’s mental decline seems to go uncovered by the political press. Plus, a defense of name-calling.

[38:26] Host Brooke Gladstone speaks with Corey Robin, distinguished professor of political science at Brooklyn College and author of Fear: The History of a Political Idea, on how free speech crackdowns can change our political culture and tear at the fabric of the soul. Plus, how Humphrey Bogart betrayed the ideals of his most celebrated film.

Further reading / listening:

“‘The Most Epic Political Victory Our Country Has Ever Seen’ Is Nothing of the Kind” • , by Jamelle Bouie
Fear: The History of a Political Idea, • by Corey Robin

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Jamelle Bouie Says Your Fear of Trump Isn't Helping. Plus, Humphrey Bogart’s Betrayal.

This week in Uganda, the pop star-turned-politician Bobi Wine released his election manifesto to win the presidency in 2026. The current leader, Yoweri Museveni, has held power in Uganda since 1986 and is seeking his seventh term.

Last year, Brooke spoke with Bobi Wine and Moses Bwayo, a co-director of the Oscar-nominated documentary Bobi Wine: The People's President. They discussed Bobi’s first bid for the presidency, the brutal backlash he has faced alongside his supporters, and why it's important for the world to pay attention to what's happening in Uganda.

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Bobi Wine: The People's President

President Trump has declared that Tylenol should not be used during pregnancy. On this week’s On the Media, how funding cuts and disputed claims linking the drug to autism have sent scientists reeling. Plus, how the religious right are processing the death of Charlie Kirk.

[01:00] Host Brooke Gladstone sits down with John Tuthill, neurobiology and biophysics professor at the University of Washington, describes the state of scientific research under Donald Trump, and how it feels to review grant proposals “while the system is burning.”

[15:52] Host Micah Loewinger speaks with Josh Keating, senior correspondent at Vox, on how the Trump administration is combining the “war on terror” with the “war on drugs.” 

[33:48] Host Brooke Gladstone talks with Matthew D. Taylor, senior Christian scholar at the Institute for Islamic, Christian and Jewish Studies in Baltimore, about how Charlie Kirk has been memorialized as a saint and a martyr by the religious right, and what it means.

Further reading / listening:

 • “
Fear and loathing on study section: Reviewing grant proposals while the system is burning • ,” by John Tuthill
 • “
What happens when Trump combines the war on drugs with the war on terror • ,” by Josh Keating
“Inside Charlie Kirk's Memorial: A Deep Dive into Christian Nationalism and Political Polarization,” • by Bradley Onishi, Straight White American Jesus Podcast

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Trump v. Tylenol. Plus, How Charlie Kirk Became a Martyr for the Christian Right.

Joseph and Shirley Wershba, worked at CBS news back in the good ol' days. In 1948, along with Edward R. Murrow, Joe Wershba helped produce the CBS’s first salvo against McCarthyism. Brooke spoke to Joe and his wife Shirley in 2005 about the film "Good Night, and Good Luck," which was partly based on their life.

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Goodnight, and Good Luck: 20 Years Later

Jimmy Kimmel’s late-night show has been pulled off the air following his comments about Charlie Kirk’s killer. On this week’s On the Media, how threats to free speech have escalated in the wake of the assassination. Plus, a school librarian in Louisiana shares how she’s been targeted by book-banning activists.

[02:25] Host Micah Loewinger sits down with Lily Mason, professor of political science at Johns Hopkins and the co-author of the book Radical American Partisanship: Mapping Violent Hostility, to discuss what data we have on how Americans think about political violence. 

[21:07] Micah speaks with Ryan Broderick, author of the Garbage Day newsletter, to examine the evidence around Charlie Kirk’s alleged killer, and what radicalization looks like in a digital age. 

[35:45] Host Brooke Gladstone talks with Amanda Jones, school librarian in Livingston Parish, Louisiana and former School Librarian of the Year, to discuss being a target of book-banning activists. Plus, why protecting libraries is as crucial as ever. 

Further reading / listening:

Radical American Partisanship: Mapping Violent Hostility, Its Causes, and the Consequences for Democracy • , by Lily Mason
 • “
Charlie Kirk was killed by a meme, • ” by Ryan Broderick
That Librarian: The Fight Against Book Banning in America, • by Amanda Jones

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Free Speech for Me, but Not for Thee. Plus, Librarians Under Siege.

Brooke Gladstone speaks with Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center and a physician in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, about how the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy Jr., purged the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee members, the controversial figures Kennedy replaced them with, and what impact this will have on the future of vaccines and immunology in the US. 

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Paul Offit Has Opinions About RFK Jnr.

Conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot and killed in front of a crowd of students at Utah Valley University. On this week’s On the Media, how the murder of a MAGA media powerhouse is driving both calls for unity, and more violence. Plus, CBS cracks under pressure from the Trump administration. 

[01:00] Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger analyze the media coverage of the assassination of conservative youth leader and media personality Charlie Kirk at a university event on Wednesday. 

[13:34] Brooke speaks with Oliver Darcy, media reporter and author of the newsletter Status, about CBS News’ recent concessions to the Trump administration and how the network is signaling a move to the right under new leadership. 

[30:43] Micah talks to Peter Shamshiri, co-host of the podcast If Books Could Kill, about what the writings of Bari Weiss reveal about the ideological underpinnings of her media empire, The Free Press.

Further reading / listening:

 • “
The Weiss Price • ,” by Oliver Darcy
 • “
CBS’ Conservative Cop • ,” by Oliver Darcy
Pundit Portrait: Bari Weiss • , If Books Could Kill podcast

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

The Aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s Murder. Plus, the Rise and Fall of CBS.

When OpenAI launched ChatGPT in November 2022, all the big tech firms were clamoring to make their own versions of the “intelligent” chatbot. Billions of dollars have been thrown into the technology – training the models, creating more advanced computer chips, building data centers. But last week, a Chinese artificial intelligence company called DeepSeek released a generative AI model that is not only competitive with the latest version of OpenAI’s model, but it was done cheaper, in less time, and with less advanced hardware. For this midweek podcast extra, host Brooke Gladstone sat down with Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast and writer of the newsletter “Where’s your Ed at,” to talk about how this new Chinese AI model threatens to burst the American tech AI bubble.

On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.

Brooke Talks AI With Ed Zitron

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