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SpyCast

SpyCast, the official podcast of the International Spy Museum, is a journey into the shadows of international espionage. Each week, host Sasha Ingber brings you the latest insights and intriguing tales from spies, secret agents, and covert communicators, with a focus on how this secret world reaches us all in our everyday lives. Tune in to discover the critical role intelligence has played throughout history and today. Brought to you from Airwave, Goat Rodeo, and the International Spy Museum. 

The Spy Museum does not endorse, approve, or support the opinions stated by guest speakers. Statements made by speakers do not represent the position or opinion of the International Spy Museum.

Josh Meyer, co-author with Terry McDermott of The Hunt for KSM, visits the International Spy Museum to talk about the decade-long FBI and CIA effort to capture Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Meyer discusses the repeated failed attempts to find the evil genius who had plotted to kill the Pope and President Clinton and explode a dozen planes over the Pacific Ocean, all before masterminding the 9/11 attacks. Finally, hear how the US finally grabbed KSM as a result of the interrogation of another terrorist, Abu Zubaydah.
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The Hunt for KSM: Inside the Pursuit and Takedown of the Real 9/11 Mastermind, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

Summary
Thomas Leahy (Website; LinkedIn) and Eleanor Williams (Website; Twitter) join Andrew to discuss the intelligence war during “the Troubles.” Thomas lives in Cardiff and Eleanor lives in Belfast. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

The Troubles through the lens of intelligence

Some key intelligence players in the Northern Ireland conflict

How the IRA and the British Army adapted organizationally

The role intelligence played in the end of the conflict

Reflections

The fluid nature of motivations and intentions

How historic narratives shape and constrain the here-and-now

And much, much more…

Episode Notes
From the late 60’s to the late 90’s Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries, and the British and Irish states, were engaged in a period known as “the Troubles”: a struggle to define or redefine the future of the island of Ireland. This is an issue with deep and complex roots, but the intelligence dimension of the period known as the Troubles is fascinating and often overlooked.
To help us get our head around it all, Andrew sat down with two specialists to discuss all things intelligence and the Troubles: from the role that MI5 and MI6 played, to the Force Research Unit and the RUC Special Branch, through to how the IRA played the counterintelligence game and the role that informers, agents and moles, such as the notorious “Stakeknife,” played. 
Thomas is the author of the Intelligence War Against the IRA, while Eleanor is a doctoral candidate comparing intelligence use during the Northern Irish and Colombian conflicts. 
And…
The head of the Republic of Ireland’s police and security intelligence force, the Garda Síochána, is Drew Harris. Drew Harris was a career Royal Ulster Constabulary officer whose father, also a career RUC officer, was killed by the IRA in 1989. He was the first external appointee from outside the Garda.
Quote of the Week
"What's their [IRA] main role in this intelligence conflict?...one of the key points here…the IRA was quite highly regional regionalized. That's actually quite key to explain why British intelligence had some difficulties against them…Initially, it was set up similar to armed forces. It would have brigades, battalions and companies…the IRA operated this kind of army structure up to 1975…the IRA then switched to this new strategy…And part of this was to prevent mass infiltration, which had started to become a problem, particularly in Belfast pre-1975. So, what it adopted in Belfast and Derry was a cell structure." – Thomas Leahy

Resources
Books

The Intelligence War Against the IRA, T. Leahy (CUP, 2020)

Britain’s Secret War Against the IRA, A. Edwards (Merrion, 2021)

Thatcher’s Spy, W. Carlin (Merrion, 2019)

The Accidental Spy, S. O’Driscoll (Mirror, 2019)

Snitch! S. Hewitt (Continuum, 2010)

Infiltrating the IRA, R. Gilmour (LB&C, 1998)

Fifty Dead Men Walking, M. McGartland (Blake, 1997)

Best Books on the Troubles (Five Books)

Articles

The Murky World of Spying During the Troubles, J. Ware, Irish Times (2017)

Alternative Ulster: How Punk Took on the Troubles, T. Heron, Irish Times (2016)

Audio
MI5 Chameleon Infiltrated New IRA
Documentary

Spotlight on the Troubles: A Secret History, BBC (2019)

The Spy in the IRA, BBC (2017)

Web 

Operation Kenova

MI5 in Northern Ireland 

Primary Sources

IRA-MI6 Intermediary: Interviews with Brendan Duddy (2009)

Good Friday Agreement (1998)

Downing Street Declaration (1993)

Anglo-Irish Agreement (1985)

Thatcher Speech at Airey Neave Memorial (1979)

IRA Green Book (1977)

PM Wilson & Thatcher discuss N. Ireland (1975)

Secret Meetings Between Government and IRA (1972)

Senator E. Kennedy, Ulster is Britain’s Vietnam (1971)

IRA Reports on Intelligence Informants (1922) 

W.B. Yeats, “Easter: 1916” (1921)

Oral Sources

Duchas Oral History Archive (2014)
Wildcard Resource

“Murals of Northern Ireland” (4500+ Photographs)

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"The IRA, The Troubles & Intelligence" – with Eleanor Williams and Thomas Leahy

Summary
Hugh Wilford joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book. Hugh is a professor, author, and leading CIA historian. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

Imperial influences on American intelligence

Key figures in CIA history 

“Wild” Bill Donovan & British influence

Groton School’s impact on CIA leaders

Reflections 

Inherited history

Challenging established narratives

And much, much more … 

Resources 
SURFACE SKIM
*Spotlight Resource*

The CIA: An Imperial History, Hugh Wilford (Basic Books, 2024)
*SpyCasts*

The British Monarchy and Secret Intelligence with Rory Cormac and Richard Aldrich (2024)

The Past 75 Years with Historian of the CIA Rhodri Jeffreys-Jones (2022)

The 75th Anniversary of the CIA with former Director Robert Gates (2022)

DEEPER DIVE
Books

A Question of Standing: The History of the CIA, R. Jeffreys-Jones (Oxford University Press, 2022) 

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

A Brief History of the CIA, R. Immerman (Wiley, 2014)

Primary Sources 

Sherman Kent Obituary (1986)

Maj. Gen. Edward G. Lansdale to go to South Vietnam (1965) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

Intelligence Remarks of Major General William J. Donovan (1946)

*Wildcard Resource*

Kim (1901) by Rudyard Kipling

As Hugh mentions in this interview, this book was the inspiration behind Kermit Roosevelt Jr.’s nickname, Kim. Harold Adrian Russell Philby, the infamous member of the Cambridge Spy Ring better known as Kim Philby, took inspiration from the same source. 

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“An Imperial History of the CIA” – with Hugh Wilford

Summary
Robert Gates (Website; Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to reflect on the 75th Anniversary of the CIA. He served 8 U.S. presidents. 

What You’ll Learn
Intelligence

His reflections on the CIA at 75

How the CIA’s story intersected with his own 

His take on the organization’s strengths and weaknesses 

The complex intl. environment the CIA must now help America navigate

Reflections

Twists of fate

Identity and institutions 

And much, much more…

Episode Notes
Robert M. Gates is the first career officer in the CIA’s history to rise from entry level employee to Director. He spent 27 years at CIA, nine of those at the NSC. More recently, he was the first Secretary of Defense to be asked to remain in office by a newly elected president. In all, he served 8 presidents. 
Wouldn’t you love to know his take on the CIA at 75? Well, we’ve made that happen for you!
He was born in Wichita, Kansas, served in the U.S.A.F. and he received his undergraduate education at William & Mary, his masters from Indiana University, and his doctorate from Georgetown University. He was formerly the President of Texas A&M University and the current Chancellor of William & Mary. 
And…
The academic institutions Dr. Gates has been associated with all have quite different capacities of football stadium: Georgetown University’s Cooper Field can hold 3,750; William & Mary’s Zable Stadium can hold 12,259; Indiana University’s Memorial Stadium can hold 52,626; and Texas A&M’s Kyle Stadium can hold a whopping 102,733. What could we infer about Dr. Gates, college sports, or the United States from this information? Well, that would be thinking like an intelligence analyst.

Quote of the Week
"I've led four very big, very different institutions and like all of them I always saw where places where CIA could be better. But I always loved the place, and I always was proud to work there and proud of the people that I knew…they were probably the smartest, most honest people I've ever met and worked with." – Robert Gates.

Resources
*Andrew’s Recommendation*

“Reorganization in the Intel. Community,” DCI Gates (1992)

Watch this prescient clip on historical naivete, or if you’re hardcore, the entire congressional testimony

*SpyCasts*

“Dealing with Russia” – with Jim Olson (2022)

“I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – with Mike Morell (2021)

*Beginner Resources*

History of CIA, CIA (n.d.) [website]

CIA Director’s Portrait Gallery, CIA (n.d.) [online gallery]

Impact of President G.H.W. Bush’s Foreign Policy, MSNBC (2018) [13 min. video]

At 75, CIA Back Where it Started, Countering Kremlin, G. Myre, NPR (2022) [5 min. audio]

Books

Spymasters: CIA Directors, C. Whipple (S&S, 2020)

Duty, R. Gates (Vintage, 2015) [Def. Sec. memoir]

A World Transformed, Bush & Scowcroft (Knopf, 1998)

From the Shadows, R. Gates (S&S, 1996) [CIA memoir]

Power & Principle, Z. Brzezinski (FS&G, 1983) [Gates was Z.B.’s Special Asst. at the NSC during the Carter era]

Articles

A More Realistic Strategy for the Post-Cold War Era, R. Gates, WaPo (2022)

Creation of the Central Intelligence Group, M. Warner, SII (1996) 

Video

Legacy of the G.H.W.B. Administration, CFR (2016)

Book Talk: From the Shadows, R. Gates, C-Span (1996)

Documentary

The Spymasters, Showtime (2015)
Curatorial

Pocket History of CIA, CIA (2014)
Primary Sources

Biden Speech on 75th Anniversary of the CIA (2022)

Robert Gates on CIA and Openness (1992)

Nomination of Gates to be DCI (1991)

Adm. Roscoe, First CIA Director Dies (1982) 

CIA Review of the World Situation (1947)

Lester to Truman re Centralized Intelligence (1947) 

National Security Act (1947)

*Wildcard Resource*

North by Northwest (Hitchcock, 1959)

We hear the first explicit mention of “CIA” in a major movie

 “FBI. CIA. ONI. We’re all in the same alphabet soup.”

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From the Vault: “The 75th Anniversary of the CIA” – with former Director Robert Gates

Introducing the new host of SpyCast, Sasha Ingber! In this week’s episode, Sasha joined Erin in a conversation about her career and the future of the International Spy Museum’s flagship podcast. Now entering it’s 19th year, SpyCast will relaunch on January 14th with brand new episodes, featuring exciting spy stories and the latest intelligence from the shadowy world of espionage. Tune in to learn more about Sasha, our very first female host and the first host with a background in journalism.

As we look forward to our upcoming relaunch, we want to extend our sincere gratitude to those who have had a hand in uplifting SpyCast throughout the past 18 years. In particular, we’d like to thank our outgoing host Dr. Andrew Hammond, whose passion for the history of intelligence and genuine connection with each of our guests shined through each of the 200+ episodes he produced. A special thanks is also due to our friends at N2K Networks for their talented production and unwavering support of the podcast. 

We can’t wait to introduce you all to the new era of SpyCast. See you in the new year! 

Subscribe to Sasha’s Substack, HUMINT, here: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ 
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Introducing the New Host: Sasha Ingber

Former intelligence officer Bryan Stern describes the tradecraft he used on Russian intelligence and military services to rescue an American imprisoned in Russian-occupied Ukraine.
If you liked this episode check out these links to more hostage rescue stories:

SpyCast - James Foley: Journalist, ISIS Hostage, Son – with His Mother Diane Foley

Operación Jaque - The Daring Rescue Mission That Freed 15 Hostages

Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

To learn more about Bryan’s work with Grey Bull you can visit greybullrescue.org. 

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org. 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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How do you fool Russian Intelligence?

Now that President Trump has been inaugurated, what can we expect for the intelligence community? On his first full day in his first term, he visited the CIA to voice support. But he has also displayed deep skepticism and accused spy agencies of undermining him. Beth Sanner is a highly decorated, retired career intelligence officer who briefed Trump with the President’s Daily Brief, a highly classified summary of the US most critical national security threats. She shares her thoughts on what lies ahead.

If you liked this episode, check out:

The President's Book of Secrets - Understanding the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) with David Priess

Hot Topics: Intelligence Challenges in an Election Year

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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How will President Trump handle intelligence in his second term?

Agent Zo was the only female Polish resistance agent to reach London as a courier during WWII and the only female member of Poland's fabled 'Silent Unseen' paratroopers. Yet despite having researched Poland's wartime resistance movement, many of us have never heard of her. Why?

If you liked this episode, check out these links:
Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland
Women Spies of WWII with Ellen McCarthy, Judith L. Pearson, and Erika Robuck
The Danger of the Femme Fatale Narrative
Code Name Madeleine with author Arthur J. Magida

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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Agent Zo: The woman who defied the Nazis and Communists

For decades, colleges and universities have been a destination for espionage. Especially in recent years, the use of international students and faculty as spies on American campuses has been particularly daunting. Why do intelligence services, both foreign and domestic, target colleges and universities? And what is there to gain on these campuses? Award-winning journalist Daniel Golden, author of the book Spy Schools, describes the timeless game. 

If you liked this episode, check out these links:

Secret History of History: Color Wars Part II with Catherine McKinley

Chinese Corporate Espionage - The Tale of the Tea Thief with Sarah Rose

Declassified Dessert | How to Make Cuban Spy Ana Montes’ Cheesecake

Queen of Cuba with Peter J. Lapp

SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Campus Cloak-and-Dagger: Spies Targeting American Universities

North Korea is growing more dangerous, but no U.S. administration has been able to crack the code on its leader Kim Jong Un. Now, there’s even less incentive for Kim to negotiate because of the support he’s getting from Russia. So what will Kim do next, and where is he vulnerable? Jung H. Pak, a former CIA analyst who served as the country’s top diplomat for North Korea, takes us inside the mind of one of the world's most opaque leaders.

If you liked this episode, check out these links:

Virtual Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Dr. Jung H. Pak
AI and Emerging Technologies: Intelligence Opportunities & Challenges 

Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories:
https://sashaingber.substack.com/

And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org, 

This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.
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What's next for Kim Jong Un?

SPY Historian Vince Houghton sat down with Richard Easton, author of GPS Declassified: From Smart Bombs to Smartphones, to discuss the development of GPS and its role in the military, intelligence, and civilian domains. Easton’s father, Roger, led the Space Applications Branch of the Naval Research Laboratory from the Vanguard Satellite era to the early days of GPS development.
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GPS Declassified: An Interview with Richard Easton

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