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All In The Mind is ABC RN's weekly podcast looking into the mental universe, the mind, brain and behaviour — everything from addiction to artificial intelligence.

All In The Mind

Difficult people are everywhere. Maybe you're one of them, or maybe you're about to sit through an awkward holiday situation with someone you REALLY don't know how to handle.

Difficult people: answering your questions about tricky relationships

From the prohibition era in the US, to gun control in Australia, bans have been used throughout history to change behaviour. 

Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes, they lead to a whole lot of unintended consequences.

With the social media ban for under-16’s taking effect this week, we uncover the three factors that can determine whether a ban is more likely to succeed or fail – and find out what the history of bans tells us about how effective this policy might be (or not).

Plus – how solid is the research on the link between mental ill health and social media use?

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests:

Dr Alexis WhittonAssociate Professor and psychologistThe Black Dog Institute and University of New South WalesDr Kate Harrison BrennanProfessor of Practice and Academic Director of the Sydney Policy LabHonorary Associate at the Sydney Law SchoolUniversity of SydneySeb, Eva, Ciara, Lily

With additional thanks to Associate Professor Susanne Schweizer, from the University of New South Wales.

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Micky Grossman

A big thank you to everyone who sent us emails and voice memos with their thoughts on the social media ban. We couldn't include everyone but we appreciate getting to hear your perspectives.

Thanks to freesound.org users TRP and davidbain

More information:

Support for under-16 social media ban soars to 77% among Australians

Illegal tobacco is a deadly $10 billion industry wiping out legitimate businesses

Smoking rates continue to decline while vaping triples, national household drug survey shows

Psychological reactance to system-level policies before and after their implementation

The presence of laws and mandates is associated with increased social norm enforcement

Youth mental health enters 'dangerous phase'

Social psychologist and author of best-selling book The Anxious Generation Jonathan Haidt talks to News Breakfast about Australia's world-first under 16 social media ban — ABC Lifestyle

eSafety appoints Stanford University-led academic advisory group to assess the impacts of the Social Media Minimum Age obligationDigital mental health, Black Dog Institute

From prohibition to social media - what makes bans succeed ... or fail?

The ABC's biggest investigative true crime podcast Unravel has just dropped their new season, Huntsman, and it's already rocketing up the podcast charts.

You might remember when former Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn was convicted of murder in the High Country. The story made headlines when Lynn admitted to burning the campers' bodies to cover his tracks.

But behind the scenes, people who knew him years ago began talking and sending messages.

It sparked an ABC investigation that uncovered the full story of his dark past and his abusive relationship with his first wife, Lisa Lynn, which ended in tragedy.

In this new season, investigative reporter Rachael Brown uncovers the details of Greg Lynn's former life and the fear and damage he left behind him in the suburbs.

You can find the podcast on ABC listen, or search for Unravel: Huntsman wherever you get your podcasts.

Presents — Unravel: Huntsman

When bad things happen, do you berate yourself or treat yourself with compassion? Do you journal, meditate, or listen to music?

Growing up, Sabrina McKenzie always turned to music to help her through her worst moments.

As she got older and began studying psychology, she realised what she felt when she listened to sad or angry songs ... was self-compassion.

In the field of positive psychology there’s plenty of research on how journalling and meditation can cultivate self-compassion (and plenty of research suggesting self-compassionate people are more mentally and physically healthy).

But Sabrina was shocked to learn there was no research on whether music could cultivate self-compassion. She decided to change that.

Today: the songs that saved Sabrina, and the novel research looking for a link between music and self-compassion. 

This episode touches on the topic of sexual abuse, please take care while listening.

Guest:

Sabrina McKenzieAssociate Lecturer in musicPhD candidate in music psychologyUniversity of Melbourne, Melbourne Conservatorium of Music

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Roi Huberman

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Music to listen to:

Why Trust You - Alice Cooper

Now I Can Dance - Tina Arena

This Is Me (Official Audio) — The Greatest Showman Cast

"Saying Goodbye" — Ondara

More information:

Self-compassion as a predictor of interleukin-6 response to acute psychosocial stress

A Systematic Review on Mediation Studies of Self-Compassion and Physical Health Outcomes in Non-Clinical Adult Populations

Exploring the role of music listening in cultivating self-compassion

Support:

Lifeline 13 11 14

The music that saves us

We've come a long way in how we talk about mental health.

But while diagnoses like depression and anxiety can empower people to seek help and support — they also influence how we see ourselves and how others might see us, too.

Today, we investigate 'concept creep.' It's the idea that the labels we use to describe mental health are expanding and being applied to an ever-wider array of human behaviours.

We look at what's causing this, the impacts it might have (both positive and negative), and what it means for how we understand mental health conditions.

This episode first aired in November 2024.

Guest:

Professor Nick HaslamProfessor of Psychology, University of Melbourne

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Sound engineer: Simon Branthwaite

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

More information:

Concept creep: Psychology's expanding concepts of harm and pathology

If everything is traumatic, is anything traumatic? The power of labels

You've probably experienced intrusive thoughts — bizarre, fleeting, sometimes inappropriate thoughts that cross your mind without warning. Although these can be weird to experience, they're totally normal.

But for people with obsessive compulsive disorder these thoughts can become inescapable — leading to worry, compulsions and shame.

Today we're talking about OCD, because it's often quite different from the stereotype of handwashing and lining up pencils. It can venture into taboo and dangerous thoughts, from paedophilia to violent harm. 

So what does living with these unwanted thoughts feel like? And how much can treatment improve OCD symptoms?

This episode covers some heavy topics from sexual abuse to suicide. There are also a few swear words. Please take care while listening.

Guests:

Uma Chatterjee, M.S., MHPSNeuroscience PhD student, University of Wisconsin-MadisonScience communicatorMental health advocate

Martin IngleWriter and filmmaker

Professor Vlasios BrakouliasPsychiatristSydney Medical School, Westmead Hospital

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Senior Producer: James Bullen
 • Sound engineer: Timothy Jenkins

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Support:

Lifeline 13 11 14

SANE Australia

ARCVic Helpline 1300 269 438

More information:

You Can't Ask That - OCD episode

‘What if I’m a paedophile?’ The intrusive thoughts that haunted Uma

According to consumer psychology, there's a recipe for being cool. And surprisingly, the ingredients are similar across a bunch of countries and cultures.

So today, we explore the concept of cool: what it says about our values and how it influences us. But be warned — if you try too hard to be cool, it might unravel your attempt before you even get there.

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guest:

Caleb WarrenConsumer psychologistProfessor of MarketingUniversity of Arizona

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Simon Branthwaite

More info:

Trying too hard or not hard enough: How effort shapes status

What Makes Things Cool? How Autonomy Influences Perceived Coolness

Cool People

Consumer behaviour and the quest for cool

You know how certain people are just… difficult? Maybe they're prickly to be around, don't take feedback well, or act like a narcissist?

Today we're learning how to handle relationships with difficult people; from setting boundaries, to understanding the role of attachment and temperament on behaviour.

Plus, is it ever the right time to cut someone off completely? And what's a 'highly sensitive person' (HSP)?

Got a question about a difficult person in your life? Send us an email at mind_rn@abc.net.au with the subject line "mailbag episode: difficult people".

Guests:

Rachel SamsonClinical psychologistCo-author, Beyond Difficult

Dr Jessie SternDevelopmental psychologist and researcherCo-author, Beyond Difficult

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Micky Grossman

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Extra information:

Beyond Difficult, An attachment-based guide to dealing with challenging people

Narcissist, or just a pain? How to deal with difficult people

Extreme emotional turmoil, fears of abandonment, huge amounts of stigma… These factors can make navigating a career when you have borderline personality disorder really tricky. But Rosie and Enya are making it happen.

Today, how to navigate your working life when you have BPD.

We hear from Enya, a listener who works on fishing boats while receiving treatment for her BPD, and Rosie, a teacher and author who decided to disclose her diagnosis with her workplace. How has borderline personality disorder impacted their careers? And what advice does an occupational therapist have for people with BPD entering the workforce?

This episode includes mention of self-harm and suicide. Please take care while listening.

Guests:

Enya

Rosie CappucinoAuthor, Talking about BPD

Dr Suzanne DawsonOccupational TherapistSenior Research Fellow, Caring Futures InstituteFlinders University

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Bethany Stewart

Thanks to freesound.org users digifishmusic and Scott_Snailham.

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Support services:

Lifeline 13 11 14

Beyond Blue

Australian BPD Foundation

How borderline personality disorder makes it harder to hold down a job

Long before Sarah's daughter Chloe Hayden became an award-winning actress starring in Netflix's Heartbreak High, she was a kid facing immense struggles. Chloe was sensitive to smells, lights and foods; she had no friends; she hated school.

Sarah never suspected Chloe was autistic, but that’s only because her idea of what autism looked like came from the film Rain Man.

Sarah is now a social worker and equine assisted therapist, working with neurodiverse families.

In this episode, Sarah shares her family’s story, her advice for parents navigating school refusal and food aversion – and the shock of getting her own surprise ADHD diagnosis later in life.

You can catch up on more episodes of the All in the Mind podcast with journalist and presenter Sana Qadar, exploring the psychology of topics like stress, memory, communication and relationships on the ABC Listen app (Australia) or wherever you get your podcasts.

Guest:

Sarah HaydenSocial workerEquine assisted therapistAuthor, Parenting Different

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Sound engineer: Roi Huberman

Support services:

Butterfly Foundation

Lifeline

More information:

What to do if nothing's working, Autism Australia

Planning Absences: A Guide for Parents of Autistic Students

Eating disorders and autism

Anorexia Nervosa and Autism Spectrum Disorder: A Systematic Review

Autism spectrum disorder and anorexia nervosa: Investigating the behavioural and neurocognitive overlap

Personal essay: "I was unseen, even to myself"

Adolescents With Autism Spectrum Disorder and Anorexia Nervosa Comorbidity: Common Features and Treatment Possibilities With Cognitive Remediation Therapy and Oxytocin

Disability advocates say NDIS changes disregard alternative therapy benefits

Effects of Equine Therapy on Individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder: a Systematic Review

Equine-Assisted Therapy for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder: a Comprehensive Literature Review

Equine assisted activities and therapies in children with autism spectrum disorder: A systematic review and a meta-analysis

Autism and Equine-Assisted Interventions: A Systematic Mapping Review

Effects of Equine-Assisted Activities and Therapies for Individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder: Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

Effectiveness of Equine-Assisted Activities and Therapies for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder: An Update

A Scoping Review of Equine-Assisted Therapies on the Mental Health and Well-Being of Autistic Children and Adolescents: Exploring the Possibilities

From school avoidance to food anxieties: navigating neurodiverse parenting

Time and time again, Dr Rangan Chatterjee has seen chronic stress wreak havoc on his patients' lives — contributing to autoimmune disorders, gut problems, low libido and more.

But the most devastating blow struck his own family, when his father's punishing work schedule forced him to medically retire in his 50s.

It’s an experience that led Rangan to rethink his own work and approach to medicine.

Today, Dr Chatterjee, a GP and host of a mega popular wellbeing podcast, shares his story, as well as strategies for better managing stress in your own life.

Guest:

Dr Rangan ChatterjeeGP, author and host of Feel Better, Live More

Credits:

 • Presenter/producer: Sana Qadar
 • Senior producer: James Bullen
 • Producer: Rose Kerr
 • Sound engineer: Tegan Nicholls

More information: 

Rangan's Australian tour

Chronically stressed? These small changes can help

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