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Dr. Gabrielle Lyon

The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show promotes a healthy world, and in order to have a healthy world, we must have transparent conversations. This show is dedicated to such conversations as the listener; your education, understanding, strength, and health are the primary focus. The goal of this show is to provide you with a framework for navigating the health and wellness space and, most importantly, being the champion of your own life. Guests include highly trustworthy professionals that bring both the art and science of wellness aspects that are both physical and mental. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon is a Washington University fellowship-trained physician who serves the innovators, mavericks, and leaders in their fields, as well as working closely with the Special Operations Military. She is the founder of the Institute of Muscle-Centric Medicine® and serves patients worldwide.

The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show

In this episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, Dr. Lyon is joined by Dr. Russell Surasky, a board-certified neurologist and addiction specialist, to discuss one of the most pressing issues of our time: addiction. With a deeply personal connection to the topic, Dr. Surasky sheds light on the reality of addiction as a chronic brain disease and dispels the myths that have fueled stigma for decades.

Dr. Surasky explains how addiction fundamentally alters brain function, the role of genetic susceptibility, and why opioids—particularly fentanyl—pose an unprecedented threat. He shares actionable insights into treatment options, including the promise of medication-assisted therapies like Vivitrol, and how families and society can better support individuals struggling with addiction.

This episode is essential for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of addiction and how we can combat the opioid epidemic through science, compassion, and innovation.

We dive into:

Why addiction is a brain disease, not a moral failure or lack of willpowerThe alarming rise of fentanyl and how it has changed the landscape of addictionHow genetic predispositions influence addiction risk and potentialThe critical differences between physical dependency and true addictionCutting-edge treatments for addictionStrategies for families to navigate addiction and support recovery

Who is Dr. Russell Surasky?

Dr. Russell Surasky is a dual board-certified neurologist and addiction specialist who combines his expertise in brain science with a compassionate approach to treating addiction. With years of experience in understanding how substances hijack the brain's reward system, Dr. Surasky has become a leading voice in addiction medicine.

Driven by a personal tragedy, Dr. Surasky works tirelessly to raise awareness about the science of addiction, reduce stigma, and offer hope through innovative treatment options. His mission is to ensure that addiction is understood as a treatable medical condition, not a moral failing.

Find Dr. Russell Surasky at:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/russellsuraskymd/

His website: http://www.drsurasky.com/

This episode is brought to you by:

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Instagram: @drgabriellelyon

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Disclaimer: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Podcast and YouTube are for general information purposes only and do not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast, YouTube, or materials linked from this podcast or YouTube is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or...

The Science of Addiction and Recovery | Dr Russell Surasky

In this episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, I sit down with Dr. Mike Israetel, an exercise physiologist and co-founder of Renaissance Periodization, to break down the science of sustainable fat loss and muscle gain. We explore the essential strategies for transforming your physique without falling for quick fixes or fad diets. From macronutrient distribution to the critical role of resistance training, Dr. Israetel offers practical, science-backed guidance for anyone looking to optimize their health and fitness. From macronutrients to supplements, we cover it all! 

We dive into: 

 • Why fat loss is often misunderstood and overcomplicated 
 • The key principles of calorie balance and macronutrient needs 
 • Strategies to preserve muscle while losing fat 
 • How to tailor your diet and activity level for sustainable results 
 • The revolutionary role of GLP-1 agonists like Ozempic 

If you’ve ever struggled to make sense of dieting myths or want a clear roadmap to achieving your fitness goals, this episode delivers the tools you need to succeed. 

Who is Dr. Mike Israetel? 

Dr. Mike Israetel is a leading expert in exercise physiology and nutrition science. With a PhD in Sport Physiology from East Tennessee State University, he has dedicated his career to teaching evidence-based principles for fitness and nutrition. As the co-founder of Renaissance Periodization, he has helped countless individuals achieve their goals through practical and sustainable methods. Dr. Israetel is also a competitive bodybuilder, author, and sought-after speaker in the fitness industry. 

 

👉 Join my all new 6 Week Forever Strong Bootcamp - https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-s... 

 

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Find Dr. Mike Israetel at: 

Instagram: @drmikeisraetel 

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RenaissancePeriodization/videos 

Find me at: 

Instagram: @drgabriellelyon 

Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon 

Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon 

YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon

The Science of Losing Fat and Keeping Muscle | Dr. Mike Israetel

Dr. Kevin Maki, renowned scientist and co-founder of multiple biomedical research centers, joins us to demystify the world of nutrition science. With a career spanning decades in epidemiology and clinical trials, Dr. Maki dives into the evidence behind red meat, cholesterol, saturated fats, and the impact of dietary habits on heart health. Discover the truth behind common misconceptions and gain clarity on making informed dietary choices.

In This Episode:

• What does the science really say about red meat and cholesterol?

• Understanding the role of saturated fats in heart health

• How observational studies and clinical trials shape dietary guidelines

• The truth about seed oils and inflammation

• Practical tips for maintaining a heart-healthy diet

Timestamps: 0:00 Introduction to Dr. Kevin Maki

2:35 The role of epidemiology in nutrition science

10:12 Unpacking red meat and cardiovascular risks

19:50 Saturated fats and their impact on cholesterol

28:30 Seed oils: Evidence vs. misinformation

38:45 Practical dietary advice for a healthier lifestyle

45:00 Q&A and final takeaways

Red Meat & Cholesterol: Separating Fact from Fiction | Dr Kevin Maki

In this episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, I sit down with Dr. Faidon Magkos, a leading expert in obesity and metabolism at the University of Copenhagen, to tackle one of the most debated topics in nutrition science – the root causes of obesity. We dive into the contrasting theories of energy balance and the carbohydrate-insulin model, shedding light on what the latest research reveals – and what remains unknown. Dr. Magkos also discusses how environmental factors, genetics, and muscle health shape metabolic outcomes.

Together, we discuss:

 • The real drivers behind obesity – is it overeating or hormonal imbalances?
 • Key differences between energy balance and carbohydrate-insulin models
 • Why obesity research still faces major limitations in human studies
 • The role of muscle and lean mass in metabolic health
 • Practical insights for diet design and weight loss strategies

If you’ve ever wondered about the science behind weight gain or how to create a sustainable, healthy diet, this episode breaks down the complexities with expert clarity.

Heads up! The audio quality in this episode isn’t perfect, but the insights are too valuable to miss. Thanks for sticking with us – you’ll want to hear this!

Who is Dr. Faidon Magkos?

Dr. Faidon Magkos is a Professor of Obesity and Metabolism at the University of Copenhagen, with over 200 published papers shaping the fields of nutrition, exercise, and obesity research. His work bridges cutting-edge science with practical insights into human metabolism and health.

This episode is brought to you by :

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Find Dr. Faidon Magkos at: 

 - University of Copenhagen: https://researchprofiles.ku.dk/en/persons/faidon-magkos

Find me at:

 - Instagram: @drgabriellelyon

 -Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon

 -Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon

 -YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon

Apply to become a patient - https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/

Join my weekly newsletter - https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.ck.page/2ed23e2860

Get my book - https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Disclaimer: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Podcast and YouTube are for general information purposes only and do not constitute the practice of medicine, nursing, or other professional health care services, including the giving of medical advice, and no doctor/patient relationship is formed. The use of information on this podcast, YouTube, or materials linked from this podcast or YouTube is at the user's own risk. The content of this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Users should not disregard or delay in obtaining medical advice for any medical condition they may have and should seek the assistance of their health care professional for any such conditions.

The Obesity Debate: Breaking Down the Science | Dr. Faidon Magkos

In this episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon sits down with Dr. Susanna Søberg, a leading expert in cold exposure and metabolism. They dive deep into the science behind cold plunging, the benefits of brown adipose tissue (BAT), and how minimal doses of cold can dramatically improve metabolic health, mental resilience, and overall well-being.

Dr. Søberg shares her personal journey from working as a nurse to becoming a PhD researcher in metabolism, uncovering the surprising role that brown fat plays in regulating blood sugar, burning fat, and improving cardiovascular health. The conversation covers practical protocols for cold exposure, including how often and how long to cold plunge for maximum benefits.

Key topics include:

 • How brown fat activation boosts metabolism and insulin sensitivity
 • The minimum effective dose of cold exposure for optimal health
 • Cold exposure’s surprising effects on mental health and mood
 • Contrast therapy: Combining cold plunges with sauna for enhanced benefits
 • Cold therapy's impact on women, including menopause symptom relief

Whether you're curious about starting cold plunges or are already a seasoned winter swimmer, this episode provides actionable insights grounded in science.

Who is Dr. Susanna Søberg?

Dr. Susanna Søberg is a PhD in metabolism and one of the world’s foremost researchers on cold exposure and brown adipose tissue (BAT). Her work focuses on how environmental stressors—like cold and heat—impact metabolism and overall health. Through her studies, Dr. Søberg developed the Søberg Principle, which outlines the minimum effective dose of cold exposure necessary to activate brown fat and improve health outcomes. She is recognized for making cutting-edge research accessible and practical for the general public.

This episode is brought to you by :

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Find Dr. Susanna Søberg at: 

 • The Søberg Institute - https://soeberginstitute.com/ 
 • Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/susanna_soeberg/
 • X - https://x.com/SusannaSberg1
 • LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanna-s%C3%B8berg-phd-9a924717/

Find me at:

 - Instagram: @drgabriellelyon

 -Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon

 -Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon

 -YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon

Apply to become a patient - https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/

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Get my book - https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Disclaimer: The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Podcast and YouTube are for general information purposes only

How to Use Cold Exposure to Transform Your Health | Dr. Susanna Søberg

In this episode of The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show, I sit down with my friend, Dr. Allison Brager, a neurobiologist, researcher, and active-duty U.S. Army neuroscientist whose work redefines what we know about sleep and human performance. Allison’s expertise goes beyond the usual advice about getting eight hours of sleep. Instead, we explore how to optimize performance and resilience when life doesn’t allow for a perfect sleep routine—something we can all relate to.

Allison shares fascinating insights from her work with military special operations, studying how sleep deprivation impacts cognitive and physical performance in high-stakes environments. We discuss the genetic factors that influence sleep tolerance, the science of tactical napping, and practical strategies to help shift workers, parents, and frequent travelers stay functional despite disrupted schedules. From groundbreaking studies on circadian biology to the effective application of tools like caffeine, Allison’s expertise is both eye-opening and actionable.

This episode is packed with cutting-edge science and real-world solutions for anyone navigating the challenges of sleep and performance in an imperfect world. Join us for a conversation that will change how you think about sleep and resilience.

Key Topics:

 • Sleep strategies for extreme conditions and busy lives
 • Tactical napping and caffeine dosing for performance
 • The link between muscle, circadian rhythms, and sleep recovery
 • Tools to optimize sleep, even in a non-ideal world

Who is Dr. Allison Brager? 

Dr. Allison Brager is a neurobiologist, researcher, and active-duty U.S. Army neuroscientist with a PhD in neuroscience from Kent State University. Her work focuses on the intersection of sleep, resilience, and performance in extreme conditions, including her extensive collaboration with Army Special Operations to optimize warfighter health. As a NASA astronaut candidate, she brings a unique perspective on functioning in imperfect conditions, offering invaluable insights for shift workers, parents, athletes, and professionals aiming to thrive despite life’s challenges.

This episode is brought to you by :

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Find Dr. Allison Brager at: 

- Instagram: @docjockzzz

- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-brager-80a58210/

- Walter Reed Army Institute of Research: https://walterreedarmyresearch.academia.edu/AllisonBrager

Find me at:

- Instagram: @drgabriellelyon

-Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon

-Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon

-YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon

Apply to become a patient -

Harnessing Sleep Science For Peak Performance | Dr. Allison Brager

Dr. Stephan Van Vliet joins us for an enlightening exploration of nutrition, agriculture, and human health. Our discussion navigates the often-overlooked complexities of food production, examining the nutritional differences between pasture-finished and grain-finished beef. We also uncover how maternal nutrition might set the stage for children's future dietary preferences. Dr. Van Vliet introduces the intriguing concept of the food matrix, emphasizing the profound impact of bioactive compounds in whole foods that go far beyond mere macronutrient content.

As we venture into the emerging field of food metabolomics, Dr. Van Vliet reveals how metabolites in plants and animals can offer new insights into health optimization. The conversation highlights the critical role of dietary choices, particularly regarding the impact of diet on metabolite composition and the potential health benefits of shifting toward whole foods. Balancing plant-based and animal-derived diets also emerges as a focal point, underscoring the health potential of integrating both for optimal nutrient intake. 

Key Topics:

 The food matrix and why whole foods matter beyond macros

 Food metabolomics and the impact of diet on metabolite composition

 Nutritional differences between pasture-finished and grain-finished beef

 How maternal nutrition influences children's future health and food choices

 Why an omnivorous diet emerges as optimal for human health

Who is Dr. Stephan Van Vliet? 

Dr. Stephan Van Vliet is the Director at the Center for Human Nutrition Studies at Utah State University. Dr. Stephan Van Vliet earned his PhD in Kinesiology as an ESPEN Fellow from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and received postdoctoral training at the Washington University in St Louis School of Medicine and Duke University School of Medicine prior to joining Utah State University in 2022.

This episode is brought to you by: 

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Find Dr. Stephan Van Vliet at:

 • The Van Vliet Lab - https://stephanvanvliet.com/
 • X - https://x.com/vanvlietphd 

Find me at: 

 • Instagram: @drgabriellelyon
 • Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon
 • Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon
 • YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon
 • Jumpstart your 2025 with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon's 4-week Foundations Challenge —join now: 
https://bit.ly/3Wnd6KT • Apply to become a patient - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/ • Join my weekly newsletter - 
https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.ck.page • Get my book - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Timestamps: 

(00:00) - Understanding the Food Matrix

(17:02) - Exploring Food Metabolomics and Nutrient Optimization

(24:51) - Exploring Plant-Based and Animal-Derived...

Unlocking the Secrets of Whole Foods | Dr. Stephan Van Vliet

Today, I welcome Dr. Heather Leidy to The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show for an in-depth conversation about the evolving landscape of nutrition science. Together, they tackle pressing topics like the future of the U.S. Dietary Guidelines, the impact of protein timing, and the importance of protein quality in supporting health and mitigating frailty. Dr. Leidy highlights recent research that explores behavioral strategies for sustainable weight management, the role of animal-sourced foods in nutrient adequacy, and the effects of GLP-1 medications on diet and health outcomes.

Key Discussion Points:

 • The critical role of breakfast in satiety and long-term health
 • Why the food matrix matters when evaluating protein sources
 • The untapped potential of family-based breakfast interventions
 • Implications of GLP-1 medications on protein needs and behavioral strategies
 • Addressing the nutrient gaps in plant-based diets and rethinking food waste

Who is Dr. Heather Leidy? 

Heather J. Leidy, PhD is currently an Associate Professor at the University of Texas at Austin. She has a joint appointment in the Department of Nutritional Sciences and the Department of Pediatrics -Dell Medical School. She previously served on the 2020 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee and was the American Society of Nutrition Research Interest Group Director. Dr.Leidy received her BS in Biology from Shippensburg University and went on to complete her MS and PhD in Physiology at Penn State University as well as a Postdoctoral fellowship in the Department of Nutrition Science and Ingestive Behavior at Purdue University.

This episode is brought to you by: 

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Find Dr. Heather Leidy at: 

The University of Texas at Austin | Department of Nutritional Sciences - https://nutrition.utexas.edu/directory/heather-leidy/ 

Find me at: 

 • Instagram: @drgabriellelyon
 • Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon
 • Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon
 • YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon
 • Jumpstart your 2025 with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon's 4-week Foundations Challenge —join now: 
https://bit.ly/3Wnd6KT • Apply to become a patient - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/ • Join my weekly newsletter - 
https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.ck.page • Get my book - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Timestamps: 

(00:00) - Dietary Protein Guidelines and Research 

(10:01) - Challenges inDietary Guideline Committee

(14:32) - Nutrition, Behavior, and Health Outcomes

(21:48) - Protein and Satiety Mechanisms

(33:20) - Impact of Higher Protein Breakfasts

(53:48) - Breakfast, Protein, and Dietary Recommendations

(01:04:58) - Improving...

Rethinking Protein Guidelines For Optimal Health | Dr. Heather Leidy

Today, I welcome ultra-endurance athlete and world record holder Zach Bitter to The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show for an insightful conversation on the extreme physical and mental demands of ultra-marathons. Zach shares his mindset strategies for overcoming the inevitable dark moments in long-distance races, including visualization techniques and the importance of mental resilience in performance.

We also dive into personalized nutrition and training adaptations, as Zach details his transition from a high-carb to a low-carb diet and how it has influenced his endurance, recovery, and overall performance. Our discussion highlights the importance of metabolic flexibility, optimizing fuel sources, and tailoring macronutrient intake based on training intensity. Whether you're an endurance athlete or someone looking to develop greater resilience in life, this episode offers invaluable lessons on mental toughness, strategic nutrition, and the pursuit of excellence.

We discuss: 

 • The mental strategies Zach uses to push through ultra-marathons
 • How visualization training enhances race-day performance
 • Transitioning from high-carb to low-carb as an endurance athlete
 • The role of macronutrient cycling in optimizing training and recovery
 • Strength training for runners: Why it matters and how to incorporate it
 • Adapting training for busy professionals: How to maximize results with minimal time

Who is Zach Bitter? 

Zach Bitter is an ultramarathon athlete, coach, and podcast host of the Human Performance Outliers Podcast. He has broken multiple world and American records, won national championships, and competed for Team USA at the World 100KM Championships. Zach follows a low-carbohydrate diet for his training and racing preparation.

This episode is brought to you by:

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Find Zach Bitter at: 

https://zachbitter.com/

Find me at:

Instagram: @drgabriellelyon

Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon

Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon

YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon

Apply to become a patient - https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/

Join my weekly newsletter - https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.ck.page

Get my book - https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Timestamps

(00:00) - Unlocking Mental Resilience for Ultra Marathons

(08:55) - Building Competitive Mindset Through Running

(13:07) - Navigating Dark Moments in Ultra Running

(19:48) - Optimizing Performance Through Nutrition Choices

(25:27) - Transitioning to Low Carb Ultra Running

(30:30) - Exploring Low Carb Ultra Running Diets

(35:23) - Training Approaches for Ultra Running

(44:08) - Optimizing Training for Experienced Runners

(48:58) - Optimizing Training Intensity and Nutrition

(56:53) - Adapting Nutrition for Ultra...

Defying Convention with Low-Carb Performance | Zach Bitter

Today, I welcome Dr. Donald Layman back to The Dr. Gabrielle Lyon Show for a deep dive into his decades of protein research, the flaws in dietary guidelines, and the evolving landscape of nutrition. Together, we explore the real reasons behind the obesity epidemic, why decades of dietary advice have led us astray, and how we can reclaim metabolic health through high-quality protein intake. Dr. Layman shares compelling research on protein requirements, nutrient density, and how misleading narratives around fat and cholesterol have shaped our food choices. This conversation will challenge what you think you know about nutrition and empower you with evidence-based strategies for long-term health.

Key Points: 

 • The real reason behind the obesity epidemic
 • Why 45% of Americans are consuming too little protein – and what that means for metabolic health
 • How dietary guidelines became politically driven and scientifically flawed
 • The food industry’s role in pushing low-nutrient, high-profit foods
 • The dangers of refined grains and ultra-processed foods on body composition
 • Breaking the stigma around red meat and cholesterol

FREE PROTOCOL: 

We’ve put together everything you need to know from this episode into the Ultimate Protein Blueprint Protocol—grab it here: https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.kit.com/872e26a3d2 

Who is Dr. Donald Layman?

Dr. Donald Layman is one of the world’s foremost experts in protein metabolism and muscle health. A professor emeritus at the University of Illinois, his pioneering research has shaped modern understandings of protein requirements, nutrient timing, and the role of muscle in metabolic health. Over decades of work, Dr. Layman has challenged mainstream nutrition dogma and continues to advocate for evidence-based dietary recommendations that prioritize optimal human performance and longevity.

This episode is brought to you by: 

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Find Dr. Donald Layman at: 

Metabolic Transformation - https://www.metabolictransformation.com/

Find me at: 

 • Instagram: @drgabriellelyon
 • Tik Tok: @drgabriellelyon
 • Facebook: facebook.com/doctorgabriellelyon
 • YouTube: youtube.com/@DrGabrielleLyon
 • Apply to become a patient - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/new-patient-inquiry/ • Join my weekly newsletter - 
https://institute-for-muscle-centric-medicine.ck.page • Get my book - 
https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

Timestamps: 

(00:00) - Welcome & Introduction

(03:00) - The State of the American Diet

(08:30) - The Role of Protein in...

The Ultimate Protein Blueprint: How to Build Strength & Live Longer | Dr. Donald Layman

Dr. Donald Layman is Professor Emeritus in the Department of Food Science & Human Nutrition at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Dr. Layman served on the faculty at the University of Illinois from 1977 – 2012. Dr. Layman has been a leader in research about protein, nutrition for athletic performance, obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular health. Dr. Layman has over 100 peer-reviewed publications. He has received numerous awards for his research from the American Society for Nutrition and the National Institutes for Health and for his nutrition teaching. Dr. Layman served as Associate Editor of The Journal of Nutrition and the Journal of Nutrition Education and Behavior and on the editorial boards of Nutrition & Metabolism and Nutrition Research and Practice. Dr. Layman earned his B.S. and M.S. degrees in chemistry and biochemistry at Illinois State University and his doctorate in human nutrition and biochemistry at the University of Minnesota. 

In this episode we discuss:

 • How to create a balanced diet
 • Where does incorrect health information come from?
 • What is cardio metabolic health?
 • How you can tailor dietary protein, fats, and carbohydrates to your needs.

This episode is brought to you by Divi, Cozy Earth, 1stPhorm, InsideTracker

Reboot Your Metabolism | MetabolicPerspective: Developing a Nutrient-Based Framework for Protein Quality - PubMed

Order Dr. Lyon's Book Forever Strong - https://drgabriellelyon.com/forever-strong/

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How to Optimize Your Nutrition for Results | Donald Layman PhD

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